38 replies to this topic

[v6 torana]

A good example of a vehicle that should not be on NSW Historic Registration...................hard to believe that a club plate registrar  has signed off declaring that the vehicle meets Historic vehicle requirements.

 

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[Redslur]

It is rampant unfortunately. Mates looking after other mates. I never applied for any concessional regos simply because my cars were not suitable in my eyes. Not all have a conscience apparently :-(

[r2160]

The worst part of this is that the NSW Govt is considering scrapping the scheme because of people like this.

However, it is the car clubs allowing this that are killing it.

[Bigfella237]

If NSW would just pull their head out of their arse and bring in a MODIFIED vehicle scheme like other states have done, it wouldn't be a problem.

[MONZA1]

NSW have had a scheme for modified cars for over a year. That's a recent plate, & I'd guess it's gone onto the plate scheme since the inception of CVS rego for modified cars.  Makes no sense.

[rexy]

And can I suggest that instead of being bitter about what others have achieved that you pull your heads in and stop making a beat up about it.

Sometimes I think some of you can’t see the wood for the trees.

Keep complaining and everybody will lose.

Is this what you want?

[Dr Terry]

If NSW would just pull their head out of their arse and bring in a MODIFIED vehicle scheme like other states have done, it wouldn't be a problem.

NSW has a very good concessional scheme for modified vehicles, but the problem is that if the car won't pass engineering, they won't allow it on the new scheme. To circumvent this they put them on historic scheme, which requires no engineering. Very dodgy.

 

The brown stuff will hit the fan if one of these cars are involved in a accident where someone is seriously injured. CTP insurance will go thru the roof.

 

Guys like this are stuffing it up for the honest ones.

 

Dr Terry

[RallyRed]

^^^^ agree with the above

 

Once it became obvious that some peope/clubs were rorting the system, and subsequently the CVS for Mod. vehicle was introduced.....there was a lot of talk that the authorities would allow a grace period, then start defecting all the Historic wanna bees with the blowers sticking through the bonnet etc etc. 

 

 

My personal view is that in NSW at least, the RMS has been a little silly by including the words "" period modifications"" in the allowable mods for genuine Historic Rego.

Those words are open to so much interpretation.

 

Regardless, it will be a sad day when those who spend say $80k on a modified car, then try and save a few paltry dollars on meeting rego requirements , and stuff it up for the majority who do the right thing.

[Redslur]

Worst post I have ever seen you post Rexy.......it is simply a clear abuse of what was a very good system. Nothing more to it!

 

 

 

And can I suggest that instead of being bitter about what others have achieved that you pull your heads in and stop making a beat up about it.

Sometimes I think some of you can’t see the wood for the trees.

Keep complaining and everybody will lose.

Is this what you want?

[Dr Terry]

NSW have had a scheme for modified cars for over a year. That's a recent plate, & I'd guess it's gone onto the plate scheme since the inception of CVS rego for modified cars.  Makes no sense.

 

It makes sense if you want to be dodgy. Read post #7.

 

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

My personal view is that in NSW at least, the RMS has been a little silly by including the words "" period modifications"" in the allowable mods for genuine Historic Rego.

Those words are open to so much interpretation.

The official wording is "period accessories" NOT modifications.

 

Dr Terry

[RallyRed]

The official wording is "period accessories" NOT modifications.

 

Dr Terry

point taken Dr T.   

 

Same same outcome though........IMHO...e.g. ...old mate says ......""back in the 70's , my local speed shop used to sell all sorts of accessories..,KMac sway bars, Uniden CBs, Recaro seats, Garrett turbos etc etc, therefore, my turbo is good for H rego"".   

[Dr Terry]

point taken Dr T.   

 

Same same outcome though........IMHO...e.g. ...old mate says ......""back in the 70's , my local speed shop used to sell all sorts of accessories..,KMac sway bars, Uniden CBs, Recaro seats, Garrett turbos etc etc, therefore, my turbo is good for H rego"".   

Yeah, you're right, up to a point. But where is that line in the sand between an accessory & a modification ?

 

To me an accessory is just that, a bolt-in thingy like a sun visor, mudflaps or a car radio. Even alloy wheels if they are period correct & of legal width. Whereas a modification is something that improves the mechanical specification of the car beyond factory specs.

 

For example if you put a stock 308 into an HQ Kingwood using factory bits, that's not a modification, but if you were to fit that same 308 to an LJ, that is a modification. If you were to fit an 850 DP Holley or a turbo to your car that is a modification.

 

From my point of view, for a car to have 'Historic' rego it must be historically correct.

 

One big grey area is things like twin or triple carbies on 50s & 60s Holden 6s. They were never RTA legal in the first place, but most people turned a blind eye, but they are a modification & are not 100% legal (either in 1967 or 2017). Many clubs allowed these under the old rules if the rest of the car was basically stock, but many did not. That WAS a grey area.

 

Having said that, we no longer have any problem because if the car is deemed to be modified by any measure, you just register it on the new CVS scheme, the costs are basically the same.

 

Dr Terry

[RallyRed]

Agree with all that...lets just hope the RMS /Police either nail the rorters...or just dont care and do nothing .
Rather than do normal...which is to punish everyone.

[LHSL]

My NSW club made me go on CVS for a granny spec LH that now has a huge 2850 in it. Since it started life as a 1900 I was happy to oblige. Car has been registered with the six since the nineties. That EH makes my blood boil.
Some clubs are doing the right thing. The others will lose their log book scheme quick smart.

Edited by LHSL, 08 January 2018 - 04:41 PM.

[Bigfella237]

From the NSWRMS website:

 

What the difference is between the Historic Vehicle Scheme and the Classic Vehicle Scheme

 

The main difference between the two schemes are:

• Vehicles (including trailers) under the Historic Vehicle Scheme must:


• must be 30 years of age or older as from the year of manufacture [how is this a difference?]


• must be as close to original condition as possible, with no modifications except for safety features such as seat belts and turn indicators or period accessories and options, if desired


• To establish or renew, a Historic Vehicle Declaration, signed by an official of a recognised and participating historic vehicle club and not greater than 42 days old. Please note that a vehicle safety inspection report must be presented if the club is less than two years old.

• Classic vehicles under the Classic Vehicle Scheme (CVS) are:


• 30 years of age or older


• up to 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Mass


• not being a plant vehicle or trailer, and


• complying with the relevant NSW vehicle standards.

Classic Vehicles must be inspected by an Authorised Examiner and be issued a passed Inspection report to confirm that the vehicle is suitable for safe use and complies with the relevant NSW vehicle standards (including the permissible modifications as detailed in Vehicle Standards Information No. 6 Light vehicle modifications or the Compliance Certificate, if required)

• To establish a conditional registration, an Authorised Unregistered Vehicle Inspection report must be presented. This will consist of a Safety Check, Identity Check and Design Check. (previously known as a 'blue slip')


• To renew a conditional registration, a Safety Check report must be presented. (previously known as a 'pink slip')

 

So as far as I can see, the biggest difference is that Historic vehicles are only inspected at the club level, whereas Classic vehicles have to be inspected by an Authorised Inspection Station every year?

 

In other words, the only reason to be on the wrong plate is if the car is unroadworthy and the "club" is passing it anyway?

[RallyRed]

and then there's always the possibility.........................that the car is a standard vehicle on H plates. Was modified for off road use for the weekend, ( forgot to remove plates) and will be returned to stock, prior to being again road driven. 

All legal.

[rexy]

Exactly.

The circumstances of the original posted vehicle are unknown to me but I think some of you need to take a more considered approach.

It’s not your problem if someone else has bent the rules and getting away with something you don’t like. Plenty of us have from time to time been given discretionary treatment and repaid that by enjoying our vehicles without incident for many years.

Do you really want to encourage a RTA crackdown? Roadblocks on the exits of events with the witch finder general kicking you off your scheme because you have “overlooked” something which is not dead factory stock. Tickets and canaries galore? It’s very easy for the powers that be to be harsh, and very hard to convince them they made a mistake.

I have lived through that style of policing in Victoria in the bad old days and I very much appreciate the new attitude VicRoads has to encouraging the presence of old cars on the road. So what if someone has bent the rules a bit (injected 304 is a common example as are minor suspension, brake and wheel/tyre changes), as long as they behave on the roads it’s not your problem.
If they do misbehave then let the coppers sort them out as they do.

Be very careful what you wish for lest you be hoisted with your own petard.

[Dr Terry]

Exactly.

The circumstances of the original posted vehicle are unknown to me but I think some of you need to take a more considered approach.

It’s not your problem if someone else has bent the rules and getting away with something you don’t like. Plenty of us have from time to time been given discretionary treatment and repaid that by enjoying our vehicles without incident for many years.

Do you really want to encourage a RTA crackdown? Roadblocks on the exits of events with the witch finder general kicking you off your scheme because you have “overlooked” something which is not dead factory stock. Tickets and canaries galore? It’s very easy for the powers that be to be harsh, and very hard to convince them they made a mistake.

I have lived through that style of policing in Victoria in the bad old days and I very much appreciate the new attitude VicRoads has to encouraging the presence of old cars on the road. So what if someone has bent the rules a bit (injected 304 is a common example as are minor suspension, brake and wheel/tyre changes), as long as they behave on the roads it’s not your problem.
If they do misbehave then let the coppers sort them out as they do.

Be very careful what you wish for lest you be hoisted with your own petard.

I think that you are underplaying this situation a little.

 

That particular car has an LSx V8 & many other serious mods that would make it unroadworthy even on 'normal' rego.

 

This is not quite the same as "because you have “overlooked” something which is not dead factory stock."

[rexy]

Like I said, I don’t know the specifics of the car pictured.

I am trying to remind everyone that complaining about what someone else may or may not have done with their car is really none of your business and may come back to bite you (as a group and individually) on the butt.

In Victoria we have led the way with schemes for historic and modified vehicles. This is largely due to the hard work of several enthusiast based bodies including the ASRF.
The success of these schemes has also been due to the clubs involved, many of which understand the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
Those with vehicles on these schemes have also contributed by behaving themselves on the roads and not bitching with each other about stuff like the original posting.

Learn the lessons of success from the Victorian experience.

After all this is what it’s about:
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Getting out and about today doing some stuff in my old shiny car. Putting smiles on peoples faces and starting plenty of conversations.
I even forgave the young bloke who said he liked my Gemini and thought it sounded grouse!

[Dr Terry]

In Victoria we have led the way with schemes for historic and modified vehicles. This is largely due to the hard work of several enthusiast based bodies including the ASRF.
The success of these schemes has also been due to the clubs involved, many of which understand the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
Those with vehicles on these schemes have also contributed by behaving themselves on the roads and not bitching with each other about stuff like the original posting.

Learn the lessons of success from the Victorian experience.
 

We have the same type of hard working enthusiasts in NSW, with similar aims. The big difference was that our old 'Vintage' plate scheme which was initiated in 1959 & the 'Street Rod' scheme which began in the mid-70s, didn't allow for what we now call Street Machines, i.e. Modified cars over 30 years old but post 1948.

 

As you know, dealing with Government departments can be very frustrating. But after several years of hard work we now have a good concessional scheme that covers just about anything, as long as it's safe & legal.

 

I think that Victoria has the same problem as NSW, it's just been around for about 2 years longer. There are too many guys (like the one pictured above) flouting the law.

 

In Victoria I've seen too many virtual drag cars, with wheelie bars & blowers protruding from the bonnet. In NSW it hasn't quite reached that situation yet.

 

A keen eye was being kept on the new Vic. system to see what could go wrong & a lot did. How many car clubs & individuals have been brought into line in Victoria in recent years. Check on how many cars (& clubs) are on your scheme today compared to say 2 years ago.

 

I think that those responsible in both states know the 'spirit' of the law & a non-engineered LSx powered EJ doing burnouts is not really what it's all about.

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

I hear NSW is scrapping rego for ICV's (Individually Constructed Vehicles).

 

No new registrations at this present time regardless of it being engineered. However, those that are currently registered are ok to renew their registration.

This only applies to those vehicles wishing to establish a NEW registration, or newly completed vehicles.

 

s

[Bigfella237]

I hear NSW is scrapping rego for ICV's (Individually Constructed Vehicles).

 

And replacing it with what?

 

ICV's are not just extensively modified cars, there are quite a few companies doing "kit cars" and low volume production as well.

 

If something complies with the ADR's I don't know how or why they would refuse to register it? What is your source? Do you have a link to further information?

[Bigfella237]

According to the RMS website, there is still a category for ICV's (see here):

 

Individually constructed vehicles are built on specially constructed floorpan or chassis structures. Some extensively modified production vehicles are also classified as individually constructed.

 

All individually constructed vehicles require a VSCCS Compliance Certificate before they can be registered in NSW.

 

If you intend to build an individually constructed vehicle, you should contact a VSCCS licensed certifier before you start to obtain an ICV approval number. The certifier will probably also require periodic inspections during the build process.

 

Once you’ve had all the required inspections and certifications, you can apply for NSW registration for your individually constructed vehicle.

 

I think you may be confused with the non-acceptance of the old ECS certificates, as previously discussed here:

 

http://www.gmh-toran...old-ecs-scheme/

[StephenSLR]

And replacing it with what? ICV's are not just extensively modified cars, there are quite a few companies doing "kit cars" and low volume production as well.

 

If something complies with the ADR's I don't know how or why they would refuse to register it? What is your source? Do you have a link to further information?

 

Apparently they're scrapping it altogether for the moment.

 

The convo started when a guy on the Mustang forum wrote:

 

Just had a call from a mate with Ford Cobra (I.C.V) and it appears that people with cars, bikes, etc. that passed the certification for nsw rego by certified engineers PRE 2011 will have to reapply for rego and undergo engineers cetrification again. Anyone out there has any info? 

I have also been told that they may be going to stop people importing special builds of cars, ie Mustang Shelby, Saleen, Roush, etc.  and models of high performance Porsche etc., unless the manufacturer sells these on their show room floors, in my case i did not want the new Aussie Mustang that is missing all the good stuff and got hold of a 2011 rhd conversion that has it all. Are any of these facts near the mark or just the xmas cheer talking? happy new year folks!

 

The most common ICV 's are AC Cobra replicas hence the concern over there. 'Big Al' from Big Al's Mustangs has recently become a certifier and has been brushing up on all the rules, he has this to say:

 

it only applies if your modified vehicle becomes unregistered for longer than the 3 month grace period. It also applies to those who are intending on applying for the CVS or Modified  Classic registration scheme that require VSCCS compliance. However, if you sell the vehicle, and it is still registered on full NSW rego, re-certification is not required.

In short, anyone who is attempting to ESTABLISH any  type of registration for a modified vehicle (which also includes right hand drive converted vehicles) are now required to have their vehicle re-certified under the current VSCCS certification scheme

This applies in NSW

Al

 

--

 

Like anything these days, rules and regulations can change at the drop of a hat. It's up to the owner/builder to constantly keep up to date, and on top of these changes. Many engage in regular contact with their certifier to give them the updates, and the vehicle should be regularly checked by the certifier to make sure that it meets the rules and regulations as the build progresses.

However, it is unfortunate for those who are half way though a build and the NSW RMS decide to cease any future approval of ICV's with no prior warning given. I have a mate who has just invested a substantial amount of coin in introducing a new type of ICV into the market. It's a major investment in tooling etc. and they are unable to get approval. He's not happy, and I don't blame him for being upset with the NSW RMS.

Hopefully they can get through it.

With the other modded cars out there, there was prior warning that the ECV's as they were previously known, did have a life span on them, and that unregistered vehicles will require re-certification to bring them up to date, and in line with the new regulations.

Let's face it, there are many cars that have been previously modified and registered under the old ECS scheme, and have since been re-modified, or further/majorly  enhanced/changed, which would now render their previous engineers report defunct/irrelevant.

It's just a matter of getting all the heavily/modified cars safety levels up to date, and in line with today's standards.

Remember guys, Safety is paramount here!

Al

--

 

The problem is with ICV's is that there has never really been any sort of Factory built safety certification/standards and exhaustive testing process as a completed unit like the factories perform, that the relevant bodies can base their authority on. Our classic cars have at the very least been certified/tested in their original composition that they can base certain findings on.

I feel for them too. many have large amounts of money invested in their projects, and can't do anything about it.

However, from what I am led to believe, there is a person that is attempting to raise enough capital to mount a legal challenge. It will be interesting to see how they go. But I imagine it is going to be a long and hard battle.

Al

 

--

Hot Rods are a whole different kettle of fish

If they are seeking full registration, then more rules again.

But not sure about them falling under ICV.

They would more likely fall under Street Rod Rego as it would be easier to register in that category. (I think)

Al

 

https://www.mustang.....html#msg317390

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 12 January 2018 - 05:53 PM.