32 replies to this topic

[dattoman]

Please add what you KNOW

Please correct where you feel the need

 

The story so far - or is it ?

 

They made 263 L34's

They made 100 A9X hatches

They made 305 A9X sedans

There were 33 A9X race shells... all hatches ? ... or was it really 52 GMP+A shells... 11 sedans and 41 hatches ?... where are they now ?

Are these numbers correct... do they account for prototypes and promo cars ?.... were they real cars of mock ups ?

 

 

Now... what happened from 1974-1980 was abit of the following

Many L34's went on to race.... how many ?

How many crashed and we're not rebuilt ?

How many were reshelled with Nasco bodies.... or factory road car bodies ?

How many survive in race trim ?

How many were converted back to road cars and sold off by the teams?

Of those road cars... how many still have L34 engines... considering the teams took the engines out to put into their new A9X's ?

So how many L34's are now just L31's.?

 

Same questions for A9X.... we know some hatches were actually SS's converted to A9X spec... do they count as A9X racecars... or not ?

If you wanted to run an A9X in 1980 you had to run rear drum brakes...the Commodores had to be better... so they hobbled the Toranas... what cars did this... do they still exist in this form ?

How many still have the L34 engine of their predecessor... and how many blew them up ?

 

With such a small number of cars... all this info should be traceable...and I believe available on a database as a definitive list so the cars can be tracked and traced.... may even stamp out some of the dodgy.

 

Who can genuinely help with info ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr Terry]

Hi Neil.

 

I can't answer any of the numbers questions, but I can answer what happened in 1980 & whether SSs were used as racecars.

 

Firstly unlike Series Production, the Group C racecars only had to be based on the road car, not actually be a 'real' one. In other words GTS350s, XU1s &  GT-HOs that raced Series Production had to be real or perfect copies not just mocked up. A lot of 4-door A9X racecars were just updated L34s, with the 'correct' bits, like the rear axle & Super T10 etc. added. Many were built from GM P&A shells which didn't even wear a compliance plate. Moffats 1-2 cars were XBs with XC fronts grafted on. Most A9X hatch racecars were built from shells, while most A9X 4-doors are converted L34s. I don't know of any 'plain' SSs made into A9X hatches, but there may be some around, but they would be perfectly 'legal' to race.

 

When Ford released the XC Falcon & Holden released the LX Torana the road cars had to meet ADR27A, so 351 4V & L34 spec motors couldn't be fitted. AFAIK both Ford & GM-H came to an agreement with CAMS to allow them to run the earlier running gear in the later cars. So this meant that XC GS Hardtops & the later Cobras ran XA/B 351 4Vs & the LX Toranas ran full LH L34 spec motors.

 

This agreement ceased in Jan 1980, so if you raced an LX in 1980 it had to use the ADR27A small valve motor & likewise the XC had to run the small port 2V style 351. To my knowledge they still had 4 wheel disc brakes because that's how A9Xs & XCs left the factory.

 

Early Commodore racecars had small valve heads too, which is why they were uncompetitive in the 1980 race. I don't know that they 'hobbled' the Toranas.

 

Dr Terry

[arrimar]

REDA9X

[Max's SS]

I believe in 1980 the a9x race car was called an LX SS. Had to use rear drum brakes and low emission heads. I also believe they may had to race without spoilers. The a9x was quicker than the new commodeore so it had to be "hobbled". Grice did win a race with the LX SS.

[S pack]

The A9X was the final evolution of the LX SL/R 5000 L34 and the SS 5000 A9X variant used the same mechanical package and as such both models were eligible to compete in Group C until the end of 1981.

[unclefestal34s]

the figure of 263 L34's has always been touted around i personally believe it to be more like 280 odd...as they were built during the super car scare as very little info was made public with them...

[RallyRed]

....just explain again why he A(Xs had to use rear drums in the later years??...never thought it to be the case?

[Max's SS]

....just explain again why he A(Xs had to use rear drums in the later years??...never thought it to be the case?

1980 was the first year of the commodore. Some teams had a commodore to start the season so did not. The teams without a commodore were able to continue to race an a9x  but CAMS had to slow it down so it was not superior to the new car.

The drum brake and aero change were part of the plan thus the change of name to LX SS.

[RallyRed]

Thanks Steve.....I was around in those days and don't recall that at all.

I guess the big picture was that the Commodores were the new big thing, and so what if a few privateers were forced to run drums in the  old ""LX SS"".

 

Reckon I'd be pissed if I was one of them though.

[S pack]

From Wikkipedia for what it's worth.

The following drivers and teams competed in the 1980 Australian Touring Car Championship.

Team Car model No Driver Ron Dickson Chevrolet Camaro Z28 2 Ron Dickson Cadbury-Schweppes Racing Holden LX Torana A9X SS Hatchback 3 Peter Janson Wayne Negus Holden VB Commodore 4 Wayne Negus Marlboro Holden Dealer Team Holden VB Commodore 05 Peter Brock Craven Mild Racing Holden LX Torana A9X SS Hatchback 6 Allan Grice Holden VB Commodore 7 Bob Morris

[S pack]

I can find nothing in the 1980 NCR for Group C that would have prevented an LX A9X from competing in the 1980 ATCC with the same mechanical specifications as the LX A9X enjoyed in 1977 to 1979.

[Max's SS]

[Max's SS]

Above photo is from Waneroo in 1980. Note there is no bonnet scoop or rear spoiler on Grice's car. 

[Max's SS]

There is a better photo of Grice's car on Oldmotorsportphotos Symmons Plains 2/3/80 on page 5. Can't copy it to post here.

[Dr Terry]

Could it be that because only 100 A9X hatches were built, which is less than the 200 minimum specified, if you ran an LX hatch, it had to be a non-A9X unit. In other words, no bonnet scoop, no rear discs etc. etc. Probably no L34 engine either. I do remember Dick Johnson being allowed to run a Super T-10 in his Falcon, so gearbox rules must have been freed up.

 

In Group C days CAMS just made up stuff as they went along. 

 

Dr Terry

[S pack]

Could it be that because only 100 A9X hatches were built, which is less than the 200 minimum specified, if you ran an LX hatch, it had to be a non-A9X unit. In other words, no bonnet scoop, no rear discs etc. etc. Probably no L34 engine either. I do remember Dick Johnson being allowed to run a Super T-10 in his Falcon, so gearbox rules must have been freed up.

 

In Group C days CAMS just made up stuff as they went along. 

 

Dr Terry

The requirements for recognition in 1980 were the same as for 1979, 1978 and 1977. If at scrutineering the vehicle presented had a valid logbook and matched it's recognition documents then it was eligible to compete.

The LX SL/R 5000 A9X  and SS 5000 A9X recognition documents were not due to expire until the end of 1981.

[S pack]

In Group C days CAMS just made up stuff as they went along. 

 

Dr Terry

Agree, they were forever tinkering with regulations because various teams were constantly whinging about parity issues. Decisions made by the CAMS were final and were not negotiable.

The removal of the A9X 'type' bonnet scoop on Moffat & Bonds 1977 Hardtops at Bathurst comes to mind.

[RallyRed]

way off Neil's original question ( sorry).....but you'd think this caper would have been news back then...anyone got a stash of old Auto Action papers?  

(I did, but had a clean up a few years ago)

[Ice]

way off Neil's original question ( sorry).....but you'd think this caper would have been news back then...anyone got a stash of old Auto Action papers?  
(I did, but had a clean up a few years ago)

I got 3 Australian Motoring Year books but i think 73 /74 /75 (god knows where there stashed) but there is heaps of photos of L34s and XU1s era
i was gunna bin them years ago but didnt see if i can dig em up Col

[Rockoz]

I had the last Grice Hatch shell for a short time.

Picked it up after he crashed it at Oran Park June 1980.

It had to run rear drums. That is what caused his total brake failure at the end of the straight.

It ran a front spoiler.

No rear spoiler or bonnet scoop.

The above pic from Wanneroo shows this well.

Ive seen a pic on here in another post of one of Rogers ex cars.

It had the signwriting on the hatch under the spoiler so guessing it ran in 1980 at some stage as well.

[Max's SS]

[Shiney005]

Please add what you KNOW

This makes it a bit hard.

 

If I ever win lotto I will fly Wayne, Joe, Grant and whoever else has a database of info to one spot so we can collate what we have collected over the years.

 

There were 33 A9X race shells... all hatches ? ... or was it really 52 GMP+A shells... 11 sedans and 41 hatches ?... where are they now ?

Are these numbers correct... do they account for prototypes and promo cars ?.... were they real cars of mock ups ?

I have never really been that interested in the A9Xs, but written accounts from club members seem to point to the 405 road cars, (plus the prototype / homologation car coming up for auction) and the 52 GMP&A racing shells. Then there were also a few GMP&A non racing shells built as spare parts for road cars. There could have been as many as 460-470 built all up. The promo cars were the standard road going versions of the A9X.

Graeme Hooleys hatchback race car was an SS 5000. The Brabham's A9X sedan was a GMP&A road (not race) shell.

Everything written below is L34 specific only.

 

Many L34's went on to race.... how many ?

I don't know. If you can find a reference to every race at every track in Australia and New Zealand from '74 to '77 you would come close to finding out. I have 69 different race cars in my files, but they are only the ones who competed at the bigger events apart from a few priveteers from WA. I know of two road cars in WA that have had a roll cage at some point, but the current owners have no clue as to their racing history. The total number would have to be close to 100.

 

How many crashed and we're not rebuilt ?

How many were reshelled with Nasco bodies.... or factory road car bodies ?

I need a whole day to go back through my records. I just don't have the time to be thorough right now, but just relying on my (terrible) memory I can think of three that were repaired using bodies from GMH spare parts. Two of these cars were repaired with the same new body. i.e. cut and shut. I don't know what tags they had fitted. The first GMP&A race body to be walked down the production line was also an L34 owned by Bob Forbes. This car was built for Bathurst 1975 after Wayne Negus ran out of brakes at Sandown, destroying the car in the process.

 

How many survive in race trim ?

There are eight or nine at the moment, but at least five of those have been a road car at some stage of their lives. In fact I can only think of one that has never been road registered.

 

How many were converted back to road cars and sold off by the teams?

Pretty much every one that wasn't converted to A9X specs, the most famous being Brock's 75 Bathurst winner which ended up with the front half being used to keep a speedway car going and the rest went on the tip. Don't forget that to convert an L34 racecar to a road car meant not much more than bolting on an exhaust, some skinny wheels and a milder cam.

 

Of those road cars... how many still have L34 engines... considering the teams took the engines out to put into their new A9X's ?

Probably more than you think. Most race teams would have had plenty of tired parts to get rid of by 1977. You would think that a few would be around with NZ blocks, but I've only seen one.

 

DISCLAIMER>>> Don't take any of the above as gospel. I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Shiney005]

Col, I have been working my way through my collection over the last couple of months. Every post it note is a page that needs to be scanned into my computer. It will be a nice little data bank when it is finished. It is only covering the years from 1974 to 1977.

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[Shiney005]

I have already thought of another race car, and another re-shell.

[Max's SS]

I see AMCS has the Gene Cooke L34 coming up for sale soon.