19 replies to this topic

[lctriples]

Guys about two years ago I started a forum on an LC/LJ project I started ("LC TO LJ PROJECT") After much sidetracking, projects around the house, putting kids through uni ect I am ready to get stuck back into it and soon I will be ready to tackle the painting side of things. Was hoping to get some advice as follows:

• Rolling shell has been primered but I don't know what with and how long ago it was done.
• Has been sitting in my garge for past two years with same primer.
• Have had conflicting advice from different auto paint shops to:
• 1: Go over existing primer with 2 pac primer to "seal" it in so it wont move, shrink, bubble ect.
• 2: Strip or have sand blasted back to bare metal, then etch prime as existing primer will have absorbed moisture over the years and I will have problems in the future.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated as I don't have much experience in auto paint, but am from a signwriting background so fairly confident in spraying, prep ect.

If I do have to strip back to bare metal can I leave boot, floor pans in black gloss acrylic I have already painted as not fussed about wont be seen.

have attached photo of when I picked car up, and as it sits now with guards, nose cone unpicked.

I plan to paint with acrylic as Marty did with his tangerine LJ in my garage as hope to do as much as possible myself (will send away to get blasted if I go down that path)

 

Thanks in advance: Paul

 

 

  

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[Bigfella237]

How much do you trust that the original primer has stuck to the metal? How much do you trust the repairs underneath?

 

You can seal over it all you want, but if it ain't bonded to the metal you're building a house on dodgy foundations.

 

If it were me, I'd want to be certain I'm not wasting my time and paint, a little pain now could save a lot later!

[rodomo]

PssssssT!!! (claw hammer is not a good look on car repairs buddy)

[71xu1]

Test to see what primer you have first. If a rag soaked in thinkers softens it its single stage primer and personally I wouldn't trust it. I don't know if I would sand blast though maybe a bit extreme, especially if it has been done before. If you can remove some primer even if two stage by scraping off etc and have a look what it looks like underneath that would help with your decision, always a gamble though if you do not start from scratch.

[S pack]

Agree ^^^^. Try rubbing a spot with a rag soaked in Acrylic Lacquer thinners. If the thinners softens/dissolves the primer it will be Acrylic.

Acrylic Lacquer primers are porous and will absorb moisture over time, so stripping back and re-priming is good advice.

The boot and the floors that you have already painted will probably be ok. I any case they are not going to be detrimental to your body finish if you had to repaint them in the future.

[LHSL]

If you trust what is hiding under the primer then leave it. What paint are you going to use? This will determine what needs to be done to the primer on the car now. If going 2pack I agree with the shop use a good quality poly undercoat and go from there.

[lctriples]

Thanks to everyone's quick response, really appreciate it. I rubbed a bit of thinners over old nose cone I had sitting outside for 2 years and primer just rubbed off (first photo), then more thinners on shell which has been in garage out of the weather and it didn't rub through, but started scraped same area away with a blade and top coat of primer started "chipping off" like old flaky painted timber windows a lot of us grew up with (most likely lead based paint in them old days!) Middle photo is under drivers side 1/4 vent window near door jam and from what I can make out consists of top primer coat (grey) primer/sealer? (black) high build primer/putty? (pale pink) red (old top coat maybe?) etch coat? (beige) then metal. Third photo is paint scraping from pass door which has grey top coat primer, bog, blue original colour top coat?, old style burgundy/red etch primer (factory paint) then metal. I think it may be best to just bight the bullet/err on the side of caution and strip back (chemical paint stripper) every thing to bare metal and etch prime, based on how easy grey primer chips/washes off, and how many layers of paint may be on car.  "Short term pain for long term gain" me thinks. Looks like car had been red at some stage of its life and doors ect may be a different colour.

 

LHSL: The plan now that I know top grey primer coat just chips away, is to do everything in acrylic to avoid carcenogenic/toxic two pak paints once stripped back to bare metal, a lot more work in rubbing back, cut/polish I know but it will be a "garage spray job". 

 

RODOMO: Fair call, I think that was when I was "chisilling" off spot welds for rusted out lower sill. I have a cheap but effective panel beating hammer/dolly kit for when things get serious.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help and invaluable advice: Paul

 

 

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[lctriples]

Another Q I meant to ask: What about moisture getting into 1K primer If I strip back to bare metal and etch prime as garage gets to 0 - 4 degrees during melbourne's winter. Can I wrap in paper/drop sheets after priming each panel/section as a barrier or do have to wait until warmer weather?

[71xu1]

If going single pack wattyl super etch will keep moisture out but not for extended periods, definitely wait for warmer weather.

[DMLC71]

The single biggest cost in a resto is usually body and paint. It's what we all judge when complete. Why take a short cut?
Bead blast body.
Etch prime.
Repair panels.
3 coats hi fill. Leave hi fill for 3 months while you work on motor etc.
Block back with speed file.
5 coats of Acrylic
5 coats high quality clear coat

You'll get a top Finnish that never needs cut & polish.

Cheers

[lctriples]

Ted, Daz, thanks for that. I have been talking to media blasters and auto paint shops during the week and I will paint strip all the flat panels myself, get all the "tricky" bits bead or soda blasted, paint all bare metal with 2k epoxy primer, 2k high build primer, then go from there with acrylic tops coats. Ted I have a thread going in members projects and plans which I hope to start updating again soon as has been on hold for over 12months 

[grumpy xu1]

Super etch has ZERO anti corrosion properties in it, strip the flat panels by yourself & dry blast the hard bits with a glass media ect, (no soda) use a really good 2 pack epoxy etch primer. Sikkens, Glasurit, ppg ect, the best thing you will spend money on is epoxy, then use 1 of their 2 pack hi builds, why not just top coat it in 2 pack aswell ? Using clears over a solid colour is old fashioned now, just use a clear on metalic's only. & buy quality materials including sandpaper ect.

[Ice]

Listen to this bloke i think he knows what he,s talking about ^^^^ ✌

[lctriples]

Ted, the plan was to paint car in single pak acrylic for simplicity (not having to mix hardener ect, i presume 2 pak has a short "pot life" whereas acrylic can be poured back into can to be used another day) and i believe 2 pak has some nasty carcenegenic chemicals in it, therefore did not want to "poison" myself, family and neighbours. Now that i will be using 2 pak expoxy primer, i might as well go 2 pak the whole way. I have built a third garage attached to existing double car garage which i can always convert into a temporary "spray booth" and use the normal safety precautions such as respirators, overalls gloves ect, and maybe even install a temp extraction fan, Does anyone know much about the dangers of 2 pak? is it only toxic when airborne? or is it also dangerous when you sand, move residual spray that settles around. Obviously i also use same safety precautions when using single pak and i always wear a dusk mask when sanding paint, filler.  Thanks paul

[71xu1]

What super etch, maybe not ZERO anti corrosive properties see data sheet https://www.wattylpc.../Super Etch.pdf

[grumpy xu1]

What super etch, maybe not ZERO anti corrosive properties see data sheet https://www.wattylpc.../Super Etch.pdf

Okay, not zero, but i wouldn't use it as an etch primer on a restoration of an older vehicle. I've used plenty of super etch myself, being in a sikkens shop. It's really good for guide coats & temporary sealing the panel steel sheets, before you make patches & then strip & epoxy them. & that is also stated from the "trade qualified" reps, when they used to do trade visits reguarly.

[grumpy xu1]

Hi Paul
Fair  enough i see what you mean now. Yes you are  right once you mix your hardener in you do have a limited time to apply your paint.
i remember painting cars in my parents garage with the floors wet down and drop sheets all around for acrylic resprays and it wasnt an issue.
saying that it was twenty years ago and the  neighbors were ok with it. (as i repaired their cars to keep he  peace!)
2  pac paints have carcynogenic chemicals in the  the  pigment and  binder of the  paint. With repeated use with no masks the chances of lung disease and infertility in men are  pretty high.
i would not paint 2 pac in a respray situation at home if someome has an asmahtic reaction to any overspray the council can issue a pretty big fine.
Cleaning 2Pac  overspray is pretty easy as i just throw out all the  contaminated drop sheets. The  main thing is not to breathe in any dust.
i would roll up some rags and put in front of the  drive way then wash it down  with a gerni,the  contamintaed water woud be trapped in the  wet rags, wet rags in garbage bag  then in the  bin.
When my neighbours saw that i was making an effort to clean up and not just wash it down the street they were  fine.
  Different  councils have  different  bylaws in regards to spraypainting. I know for  a fact if they see an extraction fan they will shut you down.
A good way of doing a repaint in 2 pac repaint is to paint all the inners  inside of all doors boot lid bonnet door jambs at home, then gap and hang all your panels,
present the  car to a panel shop and have  a pro put on the top coats to the  exterior, so you can get the  best of both worlds a quality paint job without the massive bill. 

Very well put, i like the mention of hiring a booth & a pro just for the top coats. Any type of painting at home technically "is illegal" but if you're sensible & good to the neighbour's, give it a go. If you can count, you can mix 2 pack, don't forget whether it's epoxy, high build (depending if you thin your hi build which i don't) solid colour or clear, you always add the epoxy, high build, colour or clear first, then you add the hardener, mix thoroughly, then add the correct ratio of thinners (reducer) & mix thoroughly again, use gun filters and scaled mixing containers & proper paint strainers. You will require a correct type mask to suit use for iscocyanates & preferably shut your own & neighbouring houses, whilst you're spraying, best if you give them a polite heads up & they go out for a few hours. & get yourself a decent gun for the top coat a 1.2mm or 1.4mm tip & a 2.0mm tipped gun for the epoxy & high build. Gary.