53 replies to this topic

[S pack]

There is some needle bearings and a washer that can fail there from doing the old clutch dumps.

Not in the Aussie 4 spd 1st gear on the mainshaft there isn't.

The inside bearing surface of the 1st gear end of the cluster gear cops a hiding though.

Edited by S pack, 29 July 2018 - 10:36 PM.

[RallyRed]

Oil is the recommended Castrol stuff....been using the same stuff for years. 

Re possible lubrication failure??--- It was around 0 degrees C that morning ( was -2 when we were getting it off the trailer)...however was engine warmed in the garage, then chugged down to scrutineering  and waited idling for 5 mins, and back to garage, then sat on the dummy grid for 5 mins idling, then an easy warm up lap....think it wold have been warm enough by then?

 

Dave - re the 496 cluster....I have heard that the repro 899 shafts have 496 - XXX on them , the X being the telltale, as the maker was not allowed to used the Holden part number??.  Old mate at the gearbox place assures me that it is the correct ratio...but he is double checking as we speak. 

 

Still learnin...

[S pack]

Dave - re the 496 cluster....I have heard that the repro 899 shafts have 496 - XXX on them , the X being the telltale, as the maker was not allowed to used the Holden part number??.  Old mate at the gearbox place assures me that it is the correct ratio...but he is double checking as we speak. 

 

Still learnin...

If the above was the case then surely the manufacturers of the repro gears would not have been allowed to use 496 and 497 on the repro Aussie M20 & M21 clusters.

Pretty sure the repro XU1 clusters that were for sale on ebay had 899 stamped on them and the repro input shafts had 544 on them, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[S pack]

Found this Repro XU1 input shaft on the MDS Spares website. The links to the Repro 497 and 899 clusters doesn't work.

https://www.mdspares...ront-Shaft-9234

 

This is the link to the Repro 6cyl M20 input shaft to suit the 496 cluster gear.

https://www.mdspares...Front-Shaft-923

Edited by S pack, 30 July 2018 - 01:59 PM.

[rodomo]

Looking at it, it looks like it may have popped a circlip, as mentioned earlier, and 1st gear has moved backwards allowing the synchro cone to disengage from the shift keys allowing it to spin and jamb? Maybe? Sorta? Kinda? A bit?

[LJ RB30]

If the above was the case then surely the manufacturers of the repro gears would not have been allowed to use 496 and 497 on the repro Aussie M20 & M21 clusters.
Pretty sure the repro XU1 clusters that were for sale on ebay had 899 stamped on them and the repro input shafts had 544 on them, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

And are the repro gears allowed to stamp Holden on them?

[arrimar]

Gearbox and diff lubricants don't warm up sitting still.

[S pack]

And are the repro gears allowed to stamp Holden on them?

Must be. The Japanese made repro input shafts on the MDS Spares website have Holden stamped on them.

[RallyRed]

Gearbox and diff lubricants don't warm up sitting still.

Yeah, for sure, but 15m of idling and a km of putting around the pits, I would have thought some engine heat would have found its way back there?....anyway, thanks to all for the ideas...reckon the dodgey circlip / gear in wrong spot s a winner. Will know by Wed.

Thanks again guys

[rodomo]

Gearbox and diff lubricants don't warm up sitting still.

Gearbox oil gets plenty of splashing around at idle, foot off clutch, out of gear.
Diff doesn't

[rodomo]

Pics as promised. I really don't think this was your problem though.

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[RallyRed]

Thanks R-O -B

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

I rebuilt my M20 to M21 ratios a few years ago using Jap repro's.
Now my memory struggles to hold as much info as a sieve water, but I reckon what Col says sounds about right. I think my cluster had 497-XXX and Holden on it.
The box is out at the moment so I'll pull the cover and have a look tomorrow.
Col, what did your guy say your third gear ratio was, 1.38 or 1.25?

[RallyRed]

I rebuilt my M20 to M21 ratios a few years ago using Jap repro's.
Now my memory struggles to hold as much info as a sieve water, but I reckon what Col says sounds about right. I think my cluster had 497-XXX and Holden on it.
The box is out at the moment so I'll pull the cover and have a look tomorrow.
Col, what did your guy say your third gear ratio was, 1.38 or 1.25?

Hi Adam....I asked for it to be 899 cluster, or as per 899 ratios ( 1.25 third). He said he was careful to check it was.

[S pack]

I rebuilt my M20 to M21 ratios a few years ago using Jap repro's.
Now my memory struggles to hold as much info as a sieve water, but I reckon what Col says sounds about right. I think my cluster had 497-XXX and Holden on it.
The box is out at the moment so I'll pull the cover and have a look tomorrow.
Col, what did your guy say your third gear ratio was, 1.38 or 1.25?

That is correct Adam. The 497 cluster is the V8 M21 ratios. (2.54:1 1st gear and 1.38:1 3rd gear).

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

That is correct Adam. The 497 cluster is the V8 M21 ratios. (2.54:1 1st gear and 1.38:1 3rd gear).

Yeah I know what my ratios are, with the uncertainess of repro cluster numbers I was just curious if Col's guy actually did the M20 XU1 conversion or just an M21 conversion.

[S pack]

Yeah I know what my ratios are, with the uncertainess of repro cluster numbers I was just curious if Col's guy actually did the M20 XU1 conversion or just an M21 conversion.

I'm also curious to know if he actually did the XU1 conversion or just gave Col the std 6 & 8cyl M20 ratios.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Here is a pic of my repro Jap M21 cluster. Has Holden and 3497 on it.

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[RallyRed]

Update from the gearbox guy...1/2 way into it
Dave & Rob may be onto it.
He suspects a circlip failed/ was not correctly fitted. Apparently some gears moved and are now welded to shaft. 50t press had a go at moving them and lost.
Hope to see it back Monday.

[S pack]

Update from the gearbox guy...1/2 way into it
Dave & Rob may be onto it.
He suspects a circlip failed/ was not correctly fitted. Apparently some gears moved and are now welded to shaft. 50t press had a go at moving them and lost.
Hope to see it back Monday.

Col, don't wait for Monday. Go get us some pics of the damage. PLEASE.

 

And find out what the part number on the input shaft is.

Edited by S pack, 02 August 2018 - 11:25 AM.

[RallyRed]

doh...not close to there today mate...no can do..

[S pack]

Bugger!

Well I suppose he'll have the damaged parts on hand to show you on Monday anyway.

 

Cheers

Dave.

[RallyRed]

yep...he suggested the circlip was the issue. Said the 50 tonne press can usually move these sorts of failures...but couldnt. Had to machine the collar of to slide tbe other gears off.
Supplied new shaft and gears and bearings. No charge, said it should have never happened.
Happy with that.

p.s ..also confirmed 1.25 ratio third gear, and that the repro clusters use a different numbering system..goodness knows why..

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[S pack]

yep...he suggested the circlip was the issue. Said the 50 tonne press can usually move these sorts of failures...but couldnt. Had to machine the collar of to slide tbe other gears off.
Supplied new shaft and gears and bearings. No charge, said it should have never happened.
Happy with that.

p.s ..also confirmed 1.25 ratio third gear, and that the repro clusters use a different numbering system..goodness knows why..

When you do something Col you do it good and proper.   

I'd still be checking that when in 1st gear the input shaft turns a smidgen past 2.5 turns to every turn of the output shaft.

[rodomo]

Said the 50 tonne press can usually move these sorts of failures...but couldnt. Had to machine the collar of to slide tbe other gears off.

Good job!

Supplied new shaft and gears and bearings. No charge, said it should have never happened.

Good job!