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Rivnuts/Nutserts with washers


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#1 Cook

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:44 PM

Hi guys, I have a couple of alloy canisters I intend using for radiator overflow and washer bottle.  I'm thinking of using nutserts for fixing the barbs/hose fittings to them.  To try and make then water tight I was thinking about putting rubber washers between the nutserts and the canister before pressing them on. My questions are:

 

does this sound feasible?

has anyone tried doing this and results?

potential issues?

 

As an aside I was googling and saw a site that sells nutserts with a loctite "membrane on them.  When they are compressed the loctite seal breaks and locks the nutsert in place. Cheers Ron

 



#2 76lxhatch

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:01 AM

I'm not sure that rubber would withstand the force of installation and remain intact, also possibly too thick. You could perhaps try something like very thin copper shims but in aluminium you may find that properly compressed into a snug hole the rivet nuts will seal anyway, would be worth doing some tests with similar material. At worst you can probably use a suitable sealant around the hole, probably let it go off a little before compressing the rivet nut. Can you get rivet nuts big enough for fittings? They would require a fancy tool for installation at that size.

 

Perhaps your canisters are thick enough to simply drill and tap for fittings straight into the wall? Neither of those applications need to hold any pressure.



#3 Cook

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:52 AM

Thanks for your thoughts.  I will try and get some scrap aluminium to try it out.  The cans aren't that thick so don't see tapping as an option (but I'm no expert).  I hadn't considered the fitting sizes but thought that something with a 8mm max. thread would be sufficient for the radiator.  I don't think the washer bottle one will need to be that big. Cheers Ron



#4 Bigfella237

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:26 AM

Might be easier to do it properly the first time with some weld-on bungs, such as...

 

https://www.aeroflow...ale-an-fittings

 

http://speedflowdire...m.au/female-orb

 

http://www.vpw.com.a...erial_Aluminium

 

af999-04d.jpg

 

Or if you don't have a TIG I'd reckon any engineering shop could zap 'em on for a small fee, or even just get them to weld on a blank boss that you could drill 'n tap yourself?

 



#5 Cook

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 11:56 AM

Thanks Andrew.  It's a bit hard to explain but my intention is to try and run the fittings straight out the back of the can, through the inner panel and into the wheel arch area then run the hoses from there.  That's the plan anyway, to try and keep the bay as clear as possible.  Beside the fact that I can't weld (amongst other things) and last time I went to the local welder he was going to charge $85 an hour, I think the welded bungs will be a bit too proud.  Cheers Ron



#6 76lxhatch

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:02 PM

Maybe a screw-through fitting may do the trick then (or even just a hollow threaded rod)? That way you could possibly use o-rings or fibre washers or some such and could replace them if/when needed as well as being able to achieve your custom requirements.



#7 Cook

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:31 PM

Yeah, I was going to try and run all the fittings straight out the back of the cans and through the panel (which would have made it difficult/impossible) to fit screw through fittings, if I am understanding you correctly.  Now I think I will run the washer one out the bottom and then straight out through the panel and I could use either the nutsert or screw through in the bottom of the can.  With the radiator i will run the one coming in through the bottom of the can, but the overflow from the can will need to be up as high as possible so I still would like to run that straight out the back. I'll get it sorted and let you know which way I decide to go.  Determined to get the car back on the road this year and I don't want these little things to end up being a roadblock when the time comes to fit them up, and in the meantime want to make sure any holes I need to drill are done sooner than later. lol

 

As Robin Williams said, its hot, damn hot, here in Melbourne, otherwise i would venture out and get some aluminium to try it on.  Thanks again for your advice/comments. Cheers Ron



#8 ozyozyozy

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:43 PM

$85 and hour for welding is not been ripped off, if you find the right person could get it done for beer.

Sounds a little complex the way you want to do it.
If you use any form of soft washer or rubber you risk the nutsert coming loose.
Cheapest/easiest way would be to try adapt something thats already been made, alot of options out there.

#9 Cook

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 03:39 PM

Thanks for the advice.  I wasn't suggesting the welding cost was a rip off, just that it wasn't economically viable considering I only paid $65 for the pair of cans.  Maybe I am trying to reinvent the wheel but the logic was that it is something I can do myself and not have to be reliant on anyone else to get it done.  . I'm thinking of adopting 76lxhatch advice and look at putting some sealer around the hole before I compress it. Cheers Ron



#10 rodomo

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:43 PM

I'm thinking of adopting 76lxhatch advice and look at putting some sealer around the hole before I compress it. Cheers Ron

Use this: https://www.google.c...img.4mmI_czKdPU

#11 Arron

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:23 PM

Not sure how well nutserts would seal under  pressure but the two brands of nutserts the companies i have worked for use predominantly are

Avdel or Profast



#12 Cook

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

Thanks for that Rob & Arron.  I'll do some scouting around.  Cheers Ron


Edited by Cook, 04 January 2019 - 07:31 PM.


#13 Cook

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 06:09 PM

Well all I can confirm that my theory didn't work.  As some suggested the force of compressing the nutsert simply pushed the washer out.  I will now run with the sealer option. Cheers Ron



#14 piquet

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 08:20 PM

I have a nut sett tool if you would like to borrow it. You'd have to buy the correct imperial mandrel and nutserts. Pm me if you need it.

#15 Cook

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:23 AM

Hi piquet and thanks for the offer.  I have a nutsert tool and was just going to use metric threaded nuts.  I have however changed my mind (should have listened to the gurus in the first place), and have gone and got some bungs welded on and an overflow outlet.  Pick them up today and will put up some pics. Thanks again. Ron  



#16 Cook

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:43 PM

Here's what I ended up doing.  Radiator overflow has a tube welded in to allow for overflow (overflow for overflow. LOL). GUy asked an interesting question.  Given the washer bottle will be well sealed, should there be a breather hole in the top? They obviously don't come with one originally but without one, does that make the washer pump work that bit harder? Food for thought. Cheers Ron

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#17 Bigfella237

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:32 PM

 ~ should there be a breather hole in the top? They obviously don't come with one originally ~

 

WRCAP1.jpg



#18 Cook

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:53 PM

Sorry Andrew you are correct.  I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the alloy ones don't come with a hole from manufacture, although come to think of it I don't think the plastic washer bottle in the WB has a hole. I must check. Cheers Ron



#19 Bigfella237

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:03 PM

I suppose it would still work without a breather for short squirts at least, then when the pump stops I'd expect the vacuum created in the tank to draw the fluid back through the hoses until it could suck air from the nozzles.

 

I reckon that would be a PITA as you'd have to hold the washer switch on for a few extra seconds to refill the lines every time.



#20 Cook

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 06:19 PM

Yeah. Also am I correct that there is a one way valve in the hose line? That would not help.  In theory I don't expect to do much driving in the rain with it. Would a washer bottle be a requirement for roadworthy? I suspect I will see what happens and if need be drill a small hole in the cap.  Cheers Ron



#21 Bigfella237

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:06 PM

Yep, a windscreen washer system is required under ADR 16 - Windscreen Wipers And Washers (introduced 1 JAN 1973)

 

download here: https://infrastructu...ition_adrs.aspx



#22 Cook

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 07:55 PM

Yep, thought that was the case.  You guys are going to get sick of me.  Really trying to push forward with the build and just started looking at electricals at present and juggling options like new for old (loom/gauges etc) but will post in relevant section in due course.  Cheers Ron






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