34 replies to this topic

[rexy]

How do the plugs look?

[claysummers]

If it’s pinging on 98 then 95 will make it worse, and on that note if it’s pinging on 98 your timing is way too advanced or you’re running a heap of compression.


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Could be a number of things. I once had a 186 that pinged. Pulled off the head and the valves had been ground way up in to the ports. Just a bad combustion chamber shape. Loose bits of iron that get hot and cause preignition are another. This results in the engine running on after ignition is switched off, so pretty obvious. The badly shaped cc problem can only be diagnosed by pulling the head. Had my mechanic tearing his hair out.


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[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Do you mean hard to start even with chokes?
Have you have any idea what your dynamic compression is?

[Rockoz]

Hard to start can mean a lot of things.

Does it wind over okay, or does it struggle to turn over?

First up I would be checking that your harmonic balancer hasnt spun slightly.

Doesnt take a lot of timing out of spec for some engines to be hard to start.

[lx308]

Mines also a prick to start if if hasn't been started for a couple of weeks.

I was thinking the fuel must evaporate from the carbies as I don't think they could drain back down the fuel line. If it's used every few days then it starts fine. No chokes, 1.75 Strommies.

I was thinking about fitting choke cables, but because it starts easy when used more often I don't think it'll help when it's sat for a couple of weeks.

A plus for it being hard to start is at least it's got oil pressure up before it fires

Edited by lx308, 24 February 2019 - 10:19 AM.

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Before you do anything do what Rockoz suggested and verify TDC on your balancer.
I don't mean to sound blunt but if you don't know what type of head you have and if you think 2 and 1/4 turns of the mixture screws means your carbs are set correctly, it may be a better option to pay someone to tune this thing?

[caterham2]

Whoa there guys, most of the response so far, obviously well intentioned , have zeroed in on the "pinging". The post is headed "hard to start".  My LJ XU1 with a pretty healthy motor with a lot of compression and a big cam is just like the OP's, hard to start especially after non use for a week or three. My day job used to be in small engines before I retired, and I can assure you that this donkey piss they call ULP, PULP or whatever buzz word they give it depending on the fuel company flogging it is really intended for fuel injected cars. When this rubbish came on to the market years ago our customers were plagued with hard or near impossible starting especially if the fuel was at all elderly. Some of the small engine makers commissioned  some chemical studies and one of the more interesting conclusions was that the " fines" in other words, the very volatile aromatics that vaporise easily for cold starting can be drastically depleted in as little as 12 days storage in a vented container. The hard starting we experience is more fuel quality related than any thing else. Most of the higher octane rating is down to oxygenation of the fuel by the fuel companies and this interesting enough ( surprise) also puffs up the physical volume of the fuel so the bludgers can ream you out even more at the pump. This oxygen dissipates very quickly with the other aromatics = hard starting, pinging, and whatever other evils we drivers of carby cars have to endure. I have a couple of other cars in the garage, one is turboed, direct injected, the other NA rail injected. Neither get much use, maybe driven about every 6 weeks or so, both start virtually instantly as the lack of atomisation in the probably staleish fuel they would have is overcome by the finely atomised injector spray. Make sense?

[claysummers]

So get a can of start yer bastard


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[S pack]

I've always wondered how much people are stretching the truth when they talk about throwing some fuel and a battery into a 'barn find' and it fires up first go. They probably neglect to mention the can of 'Start ya Bastard'.

 

Yes mine is like the OP's and others, hard to start if left sitting for a week or more, but as Tony said, at least the oil pressure is up before she fires.

Edited by S pack, 24 February 2019 - 10:11 PM.

[claysummers]

My blue motored EK used to take a minute to pump the fuel up from the tank when I fired up about once a month. I think there must be a dud non return valve or something. Like you say got the oil circulating around the motor but hard on the battery.


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[joeseph]

Many moons ago I wondered about fitting an electric pump so's the carby's would be ready to go quicker - then it occurred to me that getting the engine running before a decent amount of oil pumped into the bits may not be in the best interest...

[Rockoz]

I've always wondered how much people are stretching the truth when they talk about throwing some fuel and a battery into a 'barn find' and it fires up first go. They probably neglect to mention the can of 'Start ya Bastard'.

 

Yes mine is like the OP's and others, hard to start if left sitting for a week or more, but as Tony said, at least the oil pressure is up before she fires.

 

Mate used to own a wrecking yard. Had been around since the 30s

Quite often we would start something up that had been sitting for 20 plus years out in the weather.

We never used start ya bastard. Ever. Or any other ether products.

Splash of fuel down the carby and a fresh battery. Fire it up.

The stink from old fuel was bad.

 

Ether based stuff was only ever used on diesels.

I got caught about to use some aerostart once, but got a kick in the butt before I even got a whiff in.

[S pack]

Mate used to own a wrecking yard. Had been around since the 30s

Quite often we would start something up that had been sitting for 20 plus years out in the weather.

We never used start ya bastard. Ever. Or any other ether products.

Splash of fuel down the carby and a fresh battery. Fire it up.

The stink from old fuel was bad.

 

Ether based stuff was only ever used on diesels.

I got caught about to use some aerostart once, but got a kick in the butt before I even got a whiff in.

Yeah, but you poured fuel down the carb instead of start ya barstard or aerostart. Try starting those old engines without anything thrown down it's throat.

I'm not pulling the air cleaners from the CD carbs to inject some fuel to assist starting every time it's been sitting for while.

[lx308]

Are you guys running chokes? My car has none & I'm wondering if I go to the trouble of hooking up the chokes will it be easier to start when it's been sitting for a week?
Cheers

[claysummers]

Gee it might be worth a try 8)


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[holdentoranaman]

mines hard to start because at 2 1/4 turns its too lean ,chokes are a must .

[MFM]

My LJ XU1 is also a prick to start if left a week and worse at 2 and three weeks. I heard that the fuel these days doesn't atomise as most cars are fuel injected these days and thats why the difficulty. I tried a trick told to me by a mate who lives/breathes XU1's. He said to crank her over for 8-10 seconds then let it sit for 5 seconds then do this again and for some reason seems to work on about the third go?.

[claysummers]

The Holden dix fuel pumps can develop a habit of allowing the fuel to drain back in to the tank.


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[jd lj]

My LJ XU1 is also a prick to start if left a week and worse at 2 and three weeks. I heard that the fuel these days doesn't atomise as most cars are fuel injected these days and thats why the difficulty. I tried a trick told to me by a mate who lives/breathes XU1's. He said to crank her over for 8-10 seconds then let it sit for 5 seconds then do this again and for some reason seems to work on about the third go?.

I have a similar system for starting my torana when it's sat there for a while. The problem is that the fuel in the carbs evaporates. So it's necessary to refill them by cranking the engine over until you have oil pressure, then wait a minute or two and the fuel pressure that has built up in the fuel lines will continue to refill the float bowl. Since I have Webers I have the advantage of pump jets to squirt fuel down the manifolds, so once I've filled the float bowls I prime the pump circuit with 2 presses of the accelerator pedal then crank it over again and it's good to go. Once the float bowls are full it'll always start immediately. Although Webers have a cold start mechanisms most people don't use them and just feather the throttle for a few minutes until the engine has some heat in it. If the engine idles happily when cold without using a cold start mechanisms or the throttle then the idle circuit is too rich because you get incomplete combustion of the mixture on a cold engine. This applies to Su's and Strombergs too.

[rodomo]

Are you guys running chokes? My car has none & I'm wondering if I go to the trouble of hooking up the chokes will it be easier to start when it's been sitting for a week?
Cheers

The Grease Slapper had triple SU's and no chokes. I used to manually pull down the middle choke jet and fit a washing peg. After it started I used to run the RPM up to about 1500 and once it started to cough, remove the peg.

[LC-GTR-1969]

The Grease Slapper had triple SU's and no chokes. I used to manually pull down the middle choke jet and fit a washing peg. After it started I used to run the RPM up to about 1500 and once it started to cough, remove the peg.

 

This- I did something similar with my 2 inch SUs- I made a little clip out of wire, this held one carb choke open and was enough to fire it up. Pretty easy and never had a trouble getting her to fire. Webers were easier though due to accelerator pump shot.