35 replies to this topic

[Rainman]

Wow , that's a massive response. It really does scare me to think 95% of drivers can only keep there cars between the lines. I know I don't feel comfortable when I passenger to the missus. Not saying girls are the issue. There are so many girls that would kick my arse Driving/Fighting ect. I have taught her road cense, like never trust an indicator, No you have to give way as you are now classed as no longer on this road. She still stops at a give way and roundabouts  Will not drive through fast food driveway. She lacks confidence. I know there has been times when doing country kays, goats / cows ect stand next to the road and the odd kangaroo jumping out in front of me. I expect the unexpected and can avoid the expected. But I have also been lucky a few times. For some reason I don't panic. Ray

[Max's SS]

If you want some real fun......ride a motorcycle. How many time do you hear after an accident....I did not see the bike.

Still own dirt bikes but I sold my road bike 6 months ago.

[Ice]

I worked alongside crash investigators at times.
I was also taught the art of photographing a crash scene.
What to look for, what to highlight, and how to do it to provide accurate evidence.
 
My photography was used a number of times as evidence.
 
Most people only look to a certain depth into a particular topic.
I go much deeper when I look at things.
All par of the training.
Which is why the issue of trees became involved.
 
And as far as your comment on being taught to drive to the conditions, thats what they tell you to do.
But they dont go any further to explain it.
Advanced driver training will help in situations where something like an unexpected slippery surface comes into play.
That type of scenario can occur when you would be otherwise driving sensibly.
 
My driver training helped me avoid a head on collision.
The bloke behind me wasnt quite so lucky.
I got away with a side swipe. He got more damage because he did what would be considered a normal reaction. 
 
Some will agree, and others wont.
But I have never heard fo any other scenario where less training would be considered as better than more training.

I agree with most of the things you have mentioned Rob except the driver training
Doesn't matter how much training you have had once you leave the black stuff and end up whatever is on the ground on the side of the road be it sand or gravel or whatever
your just a passenger especially at speed

[Zook]

Still own dirt bikes but I sold my road bike 6 months ago.

I'm with you mate. I stopped riding on the road once I had kids. Good fun but not worth the risk. I still have my road bikes but don't ride them. I've got a YZ250 and will get an AMCROSS round or two under my belt this year and my boy will have his first MX race next weekend. I don't want him to ride on the road either.

[Rockoz]

If you want some real fun......ride a motorcycle. How many time do you hear after an accident....I did not see the bike.

Still own dirt bikes but I sold my road bike 6 months ago.

 

On the 1st of October 2017, I was riding my motorbike home from a small shopping trip.

I had been getting a few things I needed before going on a 4 day ride with my mates.

I was leaving on the following Tuesday.

 

I was about 100 metres from home. I was travelling at 50kph, following a couple of SUVs.

They turned left into a side street, I was to continue straight.

I ride my bike in the right hand wheel track on the road, to maximise my visibility, and to be better seen by others.

As the last car turned into the side street, a car came out of the same street into my path.

 

I had about 3 maybe 4 metres to react.

 

Before I started my fall, I was looking directly at the driver of the car.

And he was looking directly at me. I thought we had made eye contact.

 

 But it wasnt so.

 

I hit the brakes, thats all I had time to do. The front wheel locked up and washed out from under me.

I hit the deck and landed near the front drivers side wheel, with my feet towards the back of the ute.

I recognised the wheels as VE Commodore wheels.

 

Then something hit me in the back, and I ended up with my legs going over my body and ending up towards the front of the vehicle.

 

I lay on the road, then sat up and couldnt move until the ambos got there to help me.

 

I talked to the driver a few days later, and asked him if he could work out what happened to me during the fall.

 

He said............. mate, sorry, I didnt see you. The first thing I noticed was the sound of the bike hitting the road.

 

 

That was 20 months ago.

I have had surgery to replace the ACL in my left knee.

I have had a double spinal fusion, linking S1, L5 and L4. Thats basicacally the pelvis and the lower 2 vertebrae fused together.

 

I have been unable to return to work.

A good day sees me out of bed for about 8 hours.

An average day only 6.

 

I worked out what hit me in the back.

It was my own left foot.

I managed to kick myself in the back just below the shoulder blades.

 

 

Gene.

 

A lot of crashes I attended were the result of people leaving the tarred surface.

But they only dropped 2 wheels off.

Their reactions then led to crashes that involved anything up to 7 vehicles, often with multiple fatalities.

Had they been given better training, they could have avoided the crash completely.

 

But I really dont understand your comment fully. Ive watched a fair bit of rallycross. Tar, dirt, tar etc etc etc.

If the drivers learn some car control, there is a good chance the crash wont happen. 

Of course there are scenarios where what you say would be accurate, but it wouldnt be the rule.

In fact none of the crashes I attended would have been in that sort of scenario.

 

But better driver training could have meant that they managed to stay on the tar, or only drop 2 wheels off, both of which would have been more controllable.

[hanra]

We also need higher penalties. Like $1000 for using your mobile phone.

[Shiney005]

I agree with most of the things you have mentioned Rob except the driver training
Doesn't matter how much training you have had once you leave the black stuff and end up whatever is on the ground on the side of the road be it sand or gravel or whatever
your just a passenger especially at speed

You are wrong there Gene. Years of driving on loose surfaces leaves me wondering just how some people can turn an off road excursion into a horrible accident.  Like Rob is saying, a lot of it is due to either inattentive or tired drivers having the left hand tyres drop of the edge of the bitumen, and then overreacting causing oversteer. They then have no idea how to correct it. 

[Ice]

Your used to driving on unsealed roads Laurie 95% of drivers have not like i said at speed say 100 kph most people would frOck up
even with driver training every scenario would be different
Some of our roads down south are notorious example Caves road you come of the black stuff there your going straight into a tree no matter what

[Rockoz]

Yes Mark, that is so true.

 

I attended a lot of crashes over the years. I stopped calling them accidents in the 90s. Nothing accidental about most of them.

 

Around 75% followed a very similar course of actions.

 

Driver puts 2 wheels off the road.

Driver panics.

Driver yanks steering wheel hard to the right to get off the "dangerous" off road bit.

Car starts to understeer as weight transferred to front left wheel, sliding on the gravel.

Car manages to get front left wheel back onto bitumen.

Understeer stops and normal steering begins.

Car dramatically heads towards opposite side of the road.

 

At this point, things varied.

 

Car often collided with oncoming traffic.

 

Sometimes with nothing coming, the driver then reacts from the car being on the other side of the road, yanking steering back to the left.

Somewhere in this bit, dependant on conditions, the car starts to oversteer.

It sometimes ended up in a ditch on the travelling side of the road.

Sometimes there was time for another correction and it had a second attempt at wiping out oncoming traffic.

 

 

But the initial stages were all the same.

 

Spent a lot of hours with crash investigators over the years.

It got to a stage where after ensuring there was no risk of fire, I would do the initial investigation myself, and isolate any areas for evidence purposes.

 

Most were caused by people who drove in the city and suburbs, where there was a kerb that stopped them straying too far.

 

The more dangerous roads quickly ended up getting better verges to the side of the road, which helped a lot. Didnt stop it completely though.