25 replies to this topic

[Gatti]

Hi,

 

I had a search and couldn't find anything.

 

I have been using a P.O.S gasless MIG on my car but want to upgrade.

 

I have done some research and discovered that a TIG is better for panel work as the welds aren't as hard as MIG and are more pliable etc and less prone to crack.

 

So am I better buying a MIG with Gas or a TIG, or even a multi process welder that does both?

 

I have a VEK tools near my work and they have the ones below.

 

MIG with Gas

https://www.vektools...der-180amp.html

 

Multi Process

https://www.vektools...eries-i88x.html

 

[arrimar]

You'll find a mig will be more forgiving about cleanliness/preparation.

Heat and distortion is all relative to speed of travel and the amount of wire you can feed. A mig does both at a better rate than tig.

[claysummers]

Hybrid tools tend to be a compromise in each application and it is pretty cheap to start with. Better to spend on one good tool. Doubt you need the arc weld. Get tig next birthday.
Cheers
Clay


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[Rockoz]

Even though TIG is the preferred method, there isnt a lot wrong with MIG.

TIG is a bit harder to learn. 

I have both.

I usually use the TIG for stainless and aluminium, and MIG for the car panels.

TIG seems to go through a lot more gas as well.

 

In your case I would go for a decent MIG first up.

Instead of stitch welds, do spots, place them evenly around the patch, then gradually join them up.

That way you spread the heat more evenly.

In any case, paritcularly with bigger patches, keep a damp rag handy and cool the spots down as you go.

It is better with bigger patches to have them rounded rather than square corners too.

[Gatti]

Thanks fellas.VEK Tools near my work has closed down :(

 

I have a Sydney Tools near my house.

 

They have this one https://sydneytools....inverter-welder

 

What does the 'Inverter' part mean?? 

 

Is it the same as a normal MIG??

Edited by Gatti, 16 July 2019 - 01:58 PM.

[Gatti]

I picked this up today (I ended up spending more than planned)

 

It's a Unimig Viper Inverter MIG-MMA 182 and I bought a tank of Argon mix.

 

I actually found that all the models of Unimig they had were the inverter type.

 

Looking forward to firing it up on the weekend  

 

[Rockoz]

0.6mm wire

start with around 12v (about 11 oclock position) and wire speed about  half way.

I have the same unit

You will be pleased with the results

[Gatti]

0.6mm wire

start with around 12v (about 11 oclock position) and wire speed about  half way.

I have the same unit

You will be pleased with the results

 

What pressure do you run the gas?

Edited by Gatti, 16 July 2019 - 08:20 PM.

[claysummers]

12


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[dattoman]

Looks like your on the right track

I have both MIG and TIG

Depends on the job

 

Get yourself one of these

https://www.machiner...e.com.au/W10362

And one of these

https://www.eastwood...ound-clamp.html

[Rockoz]

Between 10 and 15 for the gas.

Usually the regulators have the markings for MIG and TIG.

But if not marked, it will be in the book.

Could give you a better answer if I went into the shed and looked.

 

One tip that few will know.

The valve on the gas bottle needs to be either fully open or fully closed to stop gas leakage.

Some valves will wear with age and you will lose some gas through the tap.

Although rare it does happen.

[Rockoz]

Looks like your on the right track

I have both MIG and TIG

Depends on the job

 

Get yourself one of these

https://www.machiner...e.com.au/W10362

And one of these

https://www.eastwood...ound-clamp.html

I like the gun stand.

 

Not a fan of magnetic earths though.

Just another joint in the system that could heat up.

 

 

Gatti.

Another thing to check before you start going gangbusters.

 

Make sure the connections on the earth clamp are  tight.

 

I forgot to check mine and it started getting hot because it was loose.

Wasnt a problem for me to fix. Being an electrician I have the right crimping gear for the connections.

 

But it was a pain when it happened.

Welder started doing silly things.

I was doing some heavy TIG welding at the time.

 

I have my MIG and TIG both on the same cart.

To save cable hassles, I have a single earthing cable for the 2 machines.

[madtoranajzedded]

I love my milwalkee magnetic clamp.they are brilliant me thinks..was only 30 odd a kennedys welding supplies..

If i ever do another car i will b using mig to spot
weld panels into position then using tig the rest..tig
being more malable is a no brainer when it comes to
dollying the area if it has deformed a little..

Good to see you getting the good gear bud..makes a
world of difference..

[Zook]

You should've upgraded to oxy. It's best for thin sheet mild steel panel work. Too late now I suppose.

[Zook]

What pressure do you run the gas?

You mean flow rate? Or like Clay and Rockoz say, 10 - 15...pressures. We all know they mean L/min.

Edited by Zook, 17 July 2019 - 09:51 PM.

[claysummers]

That’s it 12 litres/minute. Be nice to have oxy. Particularly for shrinking panels as well.


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[Rockoz]

Apparently a shrinking disc on your grinder works well for shrinking panels. No need for oxy.

Ive bought one but am yet to try it.

 

TIG does make it better for dollying, however with the number of people that do work without it, is it really necessary?

I found that it uses way more gas for the equivalent weld run.

 

But if you keep the panel cool with MIG you have very little distortion anyway. Particularly if you go away from having square corners on your patch.

 

It takes a lot of time to master TIG as well. Time means gas. Gas costs money.

You always run out of gas at inconvenient times.

 

It was after I was doing some TIG work that I upgraded my bottle size.

It chewed a significant amount for a very small repair job.

 

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Gatti]

You should've upgraded to oxy. It's best for thin sheet mild steel panel work. Too late now I suppose.

 

My welding skills are very basic as it is. I'd probably burn the car to the ground with an Oxy! 

You mean flow rate? Or like Clay and Rockoz say, 10 - 15...pressures. We all know they mean L/min.

 

Yep, I couldn't think of the right description at the time but it appears everyone knew what I meant.

[claysummers]

Shrinking discs, thanks for that


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[mick_in_oz]

Shrinking disc is slow compared to oxy, but very controllable, you don't have to get it hot enough to blue the steel, just enough to create steam when you spray it down with soapy water will create a shrink.

 

For TIG, if you're even a little serious about using it any real amount, I'd go with a G size bottle, not very convenient, but lots more cost effective, TIG is gas hungry no matter how you look at it, but I still love using it.

[Zook]

My welding skills are very basic as it is. I'd probably burn the car to the ground with an Oxy!

LOL. You'd be fine. Possibly the easiest to use whilst giving the best results. Storage of oxy acetylene bottles at home may void your insurance.

[Rockoz]

LOL. You'd be fine. Possibly the easiest to use whilst giving the best results. Storage of oxy acetylene bottles at home may void your insurance.

 

Funny you mention that.

Most would think that the acetylene bottle would be the problem in a fire.

But it isnt.

Its actually the oxygen bottle.

They will explode and become a missile, with its own propellant as well.

The acetylene bottles have a pressure relief system, whereas the oxy bottles dont.

 

Friends shed caught fire years ago.

The damage from the oxy bottle was interesting. You could see its path through the building.

Then it continued and landed a fair distance away.

Luckily it didnt hit anyone.

Family and fire fighters were at risk at the time.

 

We used the bottle as a training tool in the RFS after that.

 

The fire started from one of those upright diesel burning heaters.

He had used old oil in it.

Unfortunately the oil had been sitting outside and got water mixed in with it.

As the water boiled off it increased the fire in the heater dramatically.

It was a huge flame blowing out the top of the heater that was the cause.

 

Those heaters have been responsible for a lot of shed fires.

 

Long rant over.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Gatti]

The Unimig is SO much nicer to use and I couldn't believe how much nicer my welds were straight away on my first couple of welds using it!

 

​I did a little project today and made a fork saver for when I transport my dirt bike.

 

Edited by Gatti, 20 July 2019 - 05:27 PM.

[Covert]

I bought myself a decent mig similar to yours a few years back and I've had great results with the rust work on my LH. Once you've dialed in the right settings its pretty easy. Only trouble I ran into initially with the sheet metal was it heats up very quickly, however I've since learned to slow down and take my time.

Enjoy      

[claysummers]

Good to know. Good welder with gas makes all the difference. Looking good. Don’t be afraid to turn it up for better penetration.


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