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Starter Clearance - LC LJ V8 conversion


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#1 Lc69

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 11:00 PM

Hi there members,

Im currently fitting a Holden V8 to a LC.
I ha e used HQ mounts with the small late series starter.
It’s difficult to tell how far the motor will lean back because the K-frame is out of the car.
I’m trying to determine what I need to do to ensure I have clearance around the starter motor.

Can anyone with this setup share a picture of there starter motor so I can see how close it is to the k-frame once installed in the car?
The main issue appears to be where it bolts to the block.
I thought it might sit inside the rail, so I bent it up slightly, but it looks like I was dreaming.

Cheer in advance for anyone that can help.

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#2 koalasprint

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 06:18 AM

I had the same issue with my LX, until the frame went into the car. The engine mounts are soft and the back of the engine is heavy so it will tilt down a lot. I don't know about the LC/LJ but wouldn't be surprised if the problem goes away assuming the gearbox clearance in the tunnel is sufficient to lift it up high enough, hence raising the back of the engine in the frame.

 

Need someone that has done this in an LC/LJ to verify.

 

Cheers Steve.



#3 S pack

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 06:50 AM

The flange/lip standing vertically on the crossmember outrigger arm needs to be bent over so it points towards the ground. You will probably need to heat it with an oxy to achieve this. you could alternatively cut it off and weld the pieces back together however there may be legality problems surrounding welding suspension components?



#4 LC69GTR

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:25 AM

As mentioned above 

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  • Attached File  xw7.jpg   184.62K   11 downloads


#5 S pack

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:55 AM

Yeah XW7, lol :)



#6 yel327

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:18 AM

Did the XW7 use HT-WB mounts and adapters? Or are they slightly different like LH-LX?

I know HT-HG look different to HQ-WB but if you replace them as a set (2x mounts, 2 x adapters) they are interchangeable.

#7 LC69GTR

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:26 AM

XW7 part numbers for mounts

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#8 yel327

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:45 AM

Looks the same as HQ-WB just has a spacer added. Was it on both sides? Was there also a spacer under the rear mount? I guess that small of a spacer wouldn’t alter the angle much.

Edited by yel327, 17 October 2019 - 08:50 AM.


#9 claysummers

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:16 AM

Yeah XW7, lol :)

would have used BFH myself


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#10 LC69GTR

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:11 AM

Looks the same as HQ-WB just has a spacer added. Was it on both sides? Was there also a spacer under the rear mount? I guess that small of a spacer wouldn’t alter the angle much.

 



 

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#11 yel327

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:53 AM

I wonder if the HQ-WB adapters with the spacers and the mods to the engine mounts end up essentially replicating the LH-LX V8 adapter? Like put both combinations side by side and the critical measurements (block mounting face and bolt hole onto the crossmember) end up the same? Ignoring the cutout of course for how the LC-LJ crossmember Mount is.

Edited by yel327, 17 October 2019 - 10:55 AM.


#12 Lc69

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:14 AM

Here are some more pictures with the lip golden down in the areas that need clearance.

The issue is the starter mount bolt is over the top of the rail rather than the lip, so folding down further will not help without cutting.
The natural position for the mounts suggest there will be some clearance, but not much.
The spacers look like they could be a handy trick to have up my sleeve and I can see why the mount slots would need to be extended.

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#13 Lc69

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:21 AM

I suspect you only need to fold the whole lip down when the larger original starter was used. With the smaller ones the only real issue is now where it mounts to the block.

Great info btw guys. Appreciate the help.
If someone could get a photo of there starter in this area it might give me some more confidence.

#14 Lc69

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:49 AM

Is there a drawing for the spacer? Any idea on thickness?

#15 yel327

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 12:09 PM

Drawing 9928214 will exist within Holden still, but getting access to it won’t be easy. Les and Greg at Rares used to be able to access the archive but last I spoke to Greg before he retired they no longer had ready access.

If you can work out the angle of the mount face simple geometry might get you close though by the extra amount the hole is slotted in the mount.

#16 Lc69

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 12:13 PM

Looks like I could try a different starter
Anyone see any issues or experience with this type of starter?

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#17 LC69GTR

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 12:47 PM

Is there a drawing for the spacer? Any idea on thickness?

 

Says spacer thickness in this article 1/8 inch

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  • Attached File  3.jpg   193.73K   9 downloads
  • Attached File  2.jpg   191.94K   8 downloads

Edited by LC69GTR, 17 October 2019 - 12:55 PM.


#18 dron

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 04:55 PM

The picture of the multyfit starter posted by Tony would be what I would try to fit. The factory starter has 1 long and 1 short bolt. The one you are trying to fit is an aftermarket starter with 2 long bolts same as I fited to my WB, worked on the WB but probaly not a Torana



#19 rexy

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:53 AM

The big old factory starter fits fine with some reshaping of the crossmember. No problem getting to the bolts.

This mod has been passed by many an engineer.

Attached File  4065FA3D-9BBA-4394-8531-80D3678F6AE1.jpeg   142.57K   6 downloads
I can fit my fingers between the starter and crossmember.

I wouldn’t touch any of the aftermarket multi fit starters. Too many tales of woe. You could use the VS commodore starter. Much smaller and may well get away without touching the crossmember. Bolts are hard to find these days.

Fitment will also be affected by how high you mount the engine and how much setback you use. The higher the mounts and the more setback used, the greater the starter to crossmember clearance.

I had to raise the engine a bit so the high energy sump would clear the crossmember. Also moved the engine back for steering clearance.

#20 Lc69

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 02:03 PM

My HV sump fits now, but it was purpose made by russel pans. How, and how much, did you lift your engine?
I’ve ordered a new starter and bolts, and will likely fit the mount spacers as well.

#21 rexy

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:48 PM

I moved it up about a cm and back about 2 cm.

#22 Lc69

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:37 PM

Thanks, I can see how they would give you some more clearance.
I’ll let everyone know how I go.

#23 gtrboyy

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 06:21 PM

<p>Mine had lip turned down,hq engine brackets with the vs high torque starter that required the 2 even length bolts which were touch longer than short bolt of older starter models.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>You could stick finger inter gap...to unbolt still had to lift engine up on that side a little bit.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Hard to tell if it's not in car but can add shims if need be or take some out if it has them for trans crossmember.</p>

Edited by gtrboyy, 19 October 2019 - 06:26 PM.


#24 Lc69

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 09:50 PM

That sounds like what I have, except turning the lip down a this stage.
I’ve got the other starter coming, which should make a big difference.
I’ll probably fit the shims and hope it doesn’t impact anywhere else.....like rocker cover to booster etc.


<p>Mine had lip turned down,hq engine brackets with the vs high torque starter that required the 2 even length bolts which were touch longer than short bolt of older starter models.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>You could stick finger inter gap...to unbolt still had to lift engine up on that side a little bit.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Hard to tell if it's not in car but can add shims if need be or take some out if it has them for trans crossmember.</p>



#25 gtrboyy

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 03:49 PM

Actually tried mine with lh repro brackets & hq brackets...they sit engine in slightly different positions.

Can't remember why but went with hq brackets






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