45 replies to this topic

[Varley73]

Hey Guys

Has Been  while since I've updated.

has been slow progress while finding and obtaining parts.

i had a go at bogging the guards after installing the flutes. Took a lot of grinding, little bit of bog and a heap of sanding. still needs a bit of work but will get to it soon.

 

The big job I've been doing has been the brakes. Converting from drum to disk. i got most of the parts put in about 10 months ago but was struggling to find the pivot assembly and booster. i ended up finding one in Perth. Then had trouble finding a booster, i ended up cheating and getting hold of a generic hotrod booster after checking it was ok with my local inspector. i rebuilt the hard lines, that was fun teaching myself to double flare hard lines. took quite a few attempts but i eventually got them sorted along with the distrubution block. yesterday was the day to finally bleed the system.

 

Next job on the list is the motor has to come out, the rear main seal and sump gaskets are leaking.

Hope everybody is doing well.

[debkar]

Hi Brent

Good to see the progress , flutes came out well.



Simon

[Varley73]

Cheers Simon, not too bad for a first attempt.

 

Last couple of days have been pulling the motor out. Not an overly difficult job, got it unbolted and out in a matter of about an hour.

 

The main reason i pulled the motor was because it has a really bad leak from the rear main, after taking the cap off i had one look at the bearing and quickly figured out they will need to be replaced too. While i had it upside down i also checked the big end bearings, also looking unhappy.

 

at this point i decided i may as well go all in and pull the head too, check the bores, pistons and head too. a couple of the bores didn't look too great, with some pretty thick baked on oil in number 6, and number 3 had some rust on the cylinder, not too horrible. there was a slight ridge on most walls, at worst about the thickness of a fingernail. The head looks OK, again baked on oil, but the water galleries look pretty clogged with corrosion. nothing a good clean up cant fix.

now to make the decision weather to put rings and bearings in the 161 and slam it back together to get it regoed. or to find a 186. i would like to get the 161 going that way i can build a 186 or 202 with a bit more grunt than i can get away with when taking it over the pits.

anyway just a small update but its coming along nicely.

Cheers

Brent

Edited by Varley73, 17 February 2021 - 07:00 PM.

[yel327]

It’ll cost the same give or take to build a 186 or 202 as a 161. I’d just do it, they are still out there cheap and don’t waste time or money on the 161.

[Varley73]

Yeah thats my thoughts too after pulling it apart today. if it was just a couple of seals and gaskets i would just slam it back together. But after looking at it for a few hours id rather do like you say and put the money towards a better motor.

[yel327]

I looked on Gumtree and there were some 186 and 202 on there for under $200 each. Depending on what you decide to build all you really need is a block.

[Varley73]

Alrighty, another small update, locally there wasn't much available engine-wise, gum-tree was a bust, fb marketplace was a bust, but i put the word out through a couple of people and got hold of a 202 that was sitting under a tarp in a blokes shed "freshly rebuilt". for $100 cant complain even if it needed a rebuild. the first weird thing i noticed, was the multiple different spark plugs in it, had 2 that were a heat range of 4, 2 at a heat range of 6, and 2 that were a washer seat.

pulled the rocker cover off to see how the rocker gear looked and give it a quick inspection, all of the cover bolts were loose, and the gasket was broken.

Loos like it had been sitting for quite a while. but of rust and quite an amazing looking sump gasket....

 

Once again all of the bolts were loose on the sump so was a bit nervous about how well tightened down everything else was. managed to pry the sump away from the gasket and about 2 tubes worth of silicone. while it was off thought id better pop the rear main cap off just to see how freshly rebuilt it was. to my surprise the bearing looked pretty good. while Ive got it apart im going to change the rear main seal just to be sure its OK.

little scratches across the face was my finger nail feeling for any grooves but cant feel anything on it, and the crank looks great so im happy to change the rear main, sump and rocker cover gaskets, clean it up and drop it in.

 

Also decided im going to go ahead with changing the trimatic to an m20, so will start the collection of parts top get that all sorted.

Cheers

Brent

[rodomo]

quite an amazing looking sump gasket....

 

Looks like it's had the timing cover off?

Probably stripped a timing gear.

[Varley73]

will pop it off to check. looked ok from inside the sump but better to do it now rather than wait until its in the car.

[Varley73]

was hoping to give a great update in the last couple of weeks, but cant. got hold of a 202, rebuilt it, painted it, put it in the car and it will not suck oil out of the sump no matter what ive tried, i have packed the pump 4 times with Vaseline, poured about 3 liters of oil in through the pressure sender hole, the only time it gets pressure is when it empties the filter, as soon as the filter is empty it sucks all of the oil out of the gauge line and start from scratch. Has me absolutely stuffed as to why it wont pick up, has some local engine builders stuffed. at this stage engine will be coming back out in the next week or 2 and thrown in a corner and forgotten about for a while.

Edited by Varley73, 06 June 2021 - 08:23 PM.

[u1 71]

Change the Oil Pump

[LJ RB30]

Bugga mate thats not good.

Was the pump new? Or at least tolerances checked?

Was the block dipped (bathed) before the rebuild?

All oil galleries cleaned out & blown out as well as the pick up?

The pick up adaptor threads sealed?

The oil in the gauge line isn't being sucked out, its the air in the line expanding again after the pressure from the engine drops & pushes the oil back into the engine.

99.99% of gauge installs don't get the air bled out (as it can make a mess in the car) but over time the line may end up full of oil instead of air.

 

I had an oil starvation with my RB30 when i first got it going, it had great pressure cold & under load & high revs etc but when warm & giving it a squirt & foot on the clutch too long & gauge hit zero

I pulled it all out to find many years before when i slapped  the sump on then packed it up & moved across to WA then another 2 years to get a house & shed etc that i hadn't braised up the modified  pick up i made     

I was extremely luck not to destroy the motor.

 

Anyway sounds like yours might have to come out again 

After you investigate the problem & hopefully fix it maybe run the motor up on the a stand or ground before you reinstall it to make sure its all sweet?

Edited by LJ RB30, 06 June 2021 - 09:52 PM.

[S pack]

You would have had to swap out the sump and pick up pipe on the 202 for the LC sump & pick up on your 161. When you installed the oil pick up from the 161 to the 202 did you ensure the flare nut was properly tightened and the pick up was in good condition?

[rexy]

Sounds like a leak on the pickup side as above. If it makes oil pressure from the start then the pump probably isn’t the issue.

i had a very similar intermittent low/no pressure problem years ago on a 308. 
 

Ok when cold but when fully warm pressure would disappear after a big squirt. Why? The oil level in the sump was then low enough to uncover the crack where the head of the pickup joined the pipe.

 

The crack was very hard to see.

[Varley73]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies

Bugga mate thats not good.

Was the pump new? Or at least tolerances checked?

Was the block dipped (bathed) before the rebuild?

All oil galleries cleaned out & blown out as well as the pick up?

The pick up adaptor threads sealed?

The oil in the gauge line isn't being sucked out, its the air in the line expanding again after the pressure from the engine drops & pushes the oil back into the engine.

99.99% of gauge installs don't get the air bled out (as it can make a mess in the car) but over time the line may end up full of oil instead of air.

the pump is a new JP pump

i didnt have anywhere locally to get the block dipped, but i did blow out the oil galleries before re assembling.

im sure i put sealant on the pickup but thats the only thing im not totally sure of now

 

You would have had to swap out the sump and pick up pipe on the 202 for the LC sump & pick up on your 161. When you installed the oil pick up from the 161 to the 202 did you ensure the flare nut was properly tightened and the pick up was in good condition?

i did indeed swap the pickup and sump from the 161 onto the 202. before i put the sump on im sure i tightened the flare nut, and if asked a few days ago i would have said i was 100% sure. but now im having trouble in starting to think maybe i didnt. the pickup was in good condition and was fine in the 161.

 

Sounds like a leak on the pickup side as above. If it makes oil pressure from the start then the pump probably isn’t the issue.

i had a very similar intermittent low/no pressure problem years ago on a 308. 
 

Ok when cold but when fully warm pressure would disappear after a big squirt. Why? The oil level in the sump was then low enough to uncover the crack where the head of the pickup joined the pipe.

 

The crack was very hard to see.

Thanks for your experience, i bet that was frustrating trying to find a hairline crack.

 

ive got one more plan of attack to try in the next day or so, depending when i get into the shed next.

i think i may have put too much Vaseline in the pump possibly, so will try and clean a heap of it out, and ive got a threaded fitting to put into the block and force some oil into that to give it enough to hopefully get something happening. only other guess will be pulling the oil pump off the 161 and trying that because i know that works.

 

im just worried ive wasted the bearings now, just hoping the small amount from the filter each time ive tried has been enough to keep some kind of protection.

if that dosnt work engine will be out and sump off checking the pickup.

 

Thanks for your help guys will keep you posted, i really do appreciate it.

[LJ RB30]

Not possible to put too much vas in the pump. First rotation will sort that.
Pressurising the system first is always a good idea.
Doing this will negate the need to pack the pump as it will push oil into the pump.
I power bleed any fresh engine first with the full amount of oil the engine would take so I’m happy it’s going to have pressure straight up.
If all that fails & you pull the engine & sump (depending on how long you’ve run it) maybe pull the mains & bigend caps to solve any doubts on bearing conditions.
Good luck mate

[Varley73]

pressurized it with a hand suction pump through the sender hole, it would pressurize until i couldn't push the pump any further, i could hear a gurgling noise inside the block, turn it over and it wanted to push alot of oil back into the pump. though it was solved, undo the fitting for the pump, put the gauge back in, it gets about half way up the nylon tube, then sucks back down, even without the gauge of the other end it wont push oil to the end of the line. engine coming out tomorrow, have to have forgotten the pickup or something silly.

 

Thanks again for your help

[Varley73]

gravity feeding didnt work. going to pull the engine next week and find out whats happening. only moves the Vaseline from directly around the oil pump gears and wont suck it from the pickup. have added almost 5 litres of extra oil , which has managed to leak out covering the floor under the car. quite frustrated but no way around it, just hoping the rear main dosnt need replacing again. took me 4 attempts to get it in as it is.

Cheers Guys

[Varley73]

finally got around to removing the motor today, turns out i was just in too much of a rush and forgot to tighten the oil pickup into the block     

Definitely took a blow to the confidence but is nice and tight now so hopefully when i get itt back together ill get pressure nice and quickly.

i did also pull 2 main caps to check for damage to the bearings and they still look brand new so i think i dodged a bullet there.

Thanks again for everybody's help.

[rodomo]

At least you found the problem 

[LJ RB30]

Yep as painful as it was it's good to find a cause!

Good to hear about the bearings