68 replies to this topic

[claysummers]

Evil one,
Have you played with your static ignition timing at all? Not to tell grandma how to suck eggs but, I advance the timing until she pings under load. Then back off a touch. This will help alleviate overheating at idle.
Cheers
Clay

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[lawn bowls]

Evil one,
Have you played with your static ignition timing at all? Not to tell grandma how to suck eggs but, I advance the timing until she pings under load. Then back off a touch. This will help alleviate overheating at idle.
Cheers
Clay

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my timing has been from 12-16 degrese and no difference 

[evl666]

I would you believe it’s been a year and I still haven’t fixed this yet! Been busy with a new house and other stuff but now it’s time to get it sorted. I’ve done about 1000kms on the new engine now and it’s still playing up. The tune and timing has been looked at and is satisfactory. Like I said originally as I’m driving it’s happy at about 170-175f but at the lights it just creeps up and won’t stop. It’s currently got a 160f high flow thermostat in it. I’m starting to pull my hair out. I’ve check the temp with a probe in the cooling system and it’s correct to what’s being show on the gauge. I’m thinking of doing these two options.
1. Changing the thermostat back to a normal flow 170f. The reason I’m thinking this is to try and slow the coolant flow down so it has some time to exchange some heat.
2. Pull the heavy duty 3 core rad out and get the tank cut off to make sure it’s totally clean. It looked clean when I had it out last but I can only see so much. I’ll take suggestions

[rodomo]

Might be the radiator cap? Wrong pressure or loosing pressure.

[evl666]

I’m running a new 13 psi cap....no signs of leaking etc under pressure

[Dr Terry]

You say it's OK until you sit at the lights & then the temperature creeps up.

 

If you can drive the car at 100 km & the temp. is OK but not OK at idle, your cooling system is fine.

 

Is the motor stock ? By that I mean a stock camshaft.

 

If your camshaft is stock then you simply don't have enough air flow at idle. Maybe consider a good thermo fan.

 

If the camshaft is not stock, this compounds the problem. Get your dizzy re-graphed to give more advance down low & put a nice big thermo fan on it.

 

Dr Terry

[73SUNBURSTEXYOUWON]

Interesting read....

I have an EH. Its engine is HP179 block, bored to STD.186, std 179 head and cam. Std EH carb too.

I have similar, overheating issues sitting at lights...but temp can be fine on the open road.

My radiator is a std. EH size, recored unit.

I was over the overheating thing too, so fitted twin 10" thermofans behind the grille, they keep my engine cool now, at 180f sitting at the traffic lights.

I tried running in my EH a different coolant, only because i had "aquirable" access to it, CAT ELC, which is an extended life coolant(ELC) that has a replacement life of 6years.
I think that the ELC made my EH engine run 10°f Hotter, both highway and traffic driving, than what an ethylene glycol(EG) based coolant did.....

So "possibly" coolant additives will affect temps to a degree. Also the ratio of mix too.

But still, using an EG based coolant in my EH, i still need to use my thermo fans in stopped traffic.

I guess its just something i had to come to terms with in adding the fans in a way, hide them behind the grille, without detracting too much from an authentic appearance.
Ive never been quized about them at car shows/events....and really appart from hearing them, you would never know they were there.

The driving is much more stressless, knowing im not going to cook my engine having them.

[evl666]

Trying to stay away from the thermo fan as I’m trying to keep it stock looking. The engine is far from stock but not over the top either. Xu1 cam, stage 3 yt head, flattops for a bit more compression but that’s about it. It’s 60 thou over which might be my problem but I can see how the standard cooling system can’t cope with this. There are hundreds of old Holden’s bombing around with basically the day set up with no issue. Hell my lj xu1 was the same set up and had no issues at all.

[claysummers]

If I recall my 192 with 3 core and flex fan ran 82C at idle on a hot day but got hot at speed. Opposite to your issue so I don’t know.

Give it bit more static timing advance. What’s to lose?


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Assuming you aren’t getting any pinking under load of course.


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Assuming it isn’t pinking under load of course. 8)


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[Dr Terry]

Trying to stay away from the thermo fan as I’m trying to keep it stock looking. The engine is far from stock but not over the top either. Xu1 cam, stage 3 yt head, flattops for a bit more compression but that’s about it. It’s 60 thou over which might be my problem but I can see how the standard cooling system can’t cope with this. There are hundreds of old Holden’s bombing around with basically the day set up with no issue. Hell my lj xu1 was the same set up and had no issues at all.

Well there you go. Running hot in traffic was a common XU1 complaint, the right engine fan may help & running at least 10-12 degrees initial timing also.

 

Even Holden got this wrong in the EH series. Late in the series 179 autos got a smaller water pump pulley to make the water pump & fan run faster at idle, this improved things, so soon after all engines got the smaller pulley. Make sure you have the later pulley, from memory they changed from 5.75-inches down to 5.25-inches in diameter.

 

You are correct in saying that many old Holdens have this set-up but most don't have a temp gauge. The temp. warning light doesn't light up until 230F or so & if the cap is OK it won't boil over until above that figure.

 

One other thing is where is the temp sensor located. I've found the best spot is in the thermostat housing. The spot on the head near No. 5 cyl is too close to the exhaust port & the readings from there are not reliable.

 

Dr Terry

[hotmetal1000]

I would you believe it’s been a year and I still haven’t fixed this yet! Been busy with a new house and other stuff but now it’s time to get it sorted. I’ve done about 1000kms on the new engine now and it’s still playing up. The tune and timing has been looked at and is satisfactory. Like I said originally as I’m driving it’s happy at about 170-175f but at the lights it just creeps up and won’t stop. It’s currently got a 160f high flow thermostat in it. I’m starting to pull my hair out. I’ve check the temp with a probe in the cooling system and it’s correct to what’s being show on the gauge. I’m thinking of doing these two options.
1. Changing the thermostat back to a normal flow 170f. The reason I’m thinking this is to try and slow the coolant flow down so it has some time to exchange some heat.
2. Pull the heavy duty 3 core rad out and get the tank cut off to make sure it’s totally clean. It looked clean when I had it out last but I can only see so much. I’ll take suggestions

If it overheats at the lights and only at the lights (idle and stationary) then it simply is not enough air flow through the radiator.

You can turn your cabin heater and fan on full which will help OR increase air flow through radiator (changing engine fan, shroud or install thermo fan) OR put up with it overheating.

[grumpy xu1]

There's dyno tests on the hp taken to run particular fans, but it would be great to see tests on what fan can cool the best, or how to have a factory look, but have the best cooling ability. Danny & i are going to look into radiusing edges & smoothening the cast marks from the entire cooling system, like you would for the oiling system. When we get to that stage of our builds. Cooling seems to be something that's not very understood, by anyone apart from the professionals. Would a low friction high speed quality bearing in the water pump have any significant help with overheating ?

[originalglenn]

Dunno if this helps much

but a few years ago now when I needed a new radiator went to the local shop

said I want a triple core radiator

He said

"no you don't"

"we used to race these cars speedway and a twin core works best"

[I'm a Red Motor fiend]

Thermo.

[73SUNBURSTEXYOUWON]

There's dyno tests on the hp taken to run particular fans, but it would be great to see tests on what fan can cool the best, or how to have a factory look, but have the best cooling ability. Danny & i are going to look into radiusing edges & smoothening the cast marks from the entire cooling system, like you would for the oiling system. When we get to that stage of our builds. Cooling seems to be something that's not very understood, by anyone apart from the professionals. Would a low friction high speed quality bearing in the water pump have any significant help with overheating ?

Hi Gary, i dont know if changing a water pump bearing would significantly impact on cooling temps, as the pump rotation is governed by the engine revs - pulley rotation.

Dr. Terry mentioned pulley diameters earlier that appeared to make some difference.

There has also been other post chats of different water pump impellers, either cast or pressed tin, is one more effective than the other??

Keeping in mind also, the distance the impeller is from the pump body (from new), to improve flow, can it be pressed a little closer to the body. Ive done that before, but not sure how much more it actually improved anything.

Also curiously, what area's of the cooling system (engine block or head) could be effectively smoothed of cast mark lumps n bumps to improve cooling. Some areas would be inaccessible, so would
much be gained?

[rexy]

As above, airflow control is your problem.

 

Try taping up all the gaps around your shroud on the back of the radiator and make sure you have the correct length fan spacer. This will maximise air pull through the radiator.

[evl666]

I have got about 2-3 cm between the fan and the radiator so I’d say it’s the correct fan spacer. I’m still going to cut the top tank off and inspect the actual core. I still feel it shouldn’t over heat at all.

[grumpy xu1]

I have got about 2-3 cm between the fan and the radiator so I’d say it’s the correct fan spacer. I’m still going to cut the top tank off and inspect the actual core. I still feel it shouldn’t over heat at all.

No fan spacer or shroud on lc lj torana !

That was meant for Rexy.

[grumpy xu1]

Hi Gary, i dont know if changing a water pump bearing would significantly impact on cooling temps, as the pump rotation is governed by the engine revs - pulley rotation.
Dr. Terry mentioned pulley diameters earlier that appeared to make some difference.
There has also been other post chats of different water pump impellers, either cast or pressed tin, is one more effective than the other??
Keeping in mind also, the distance the impeller is from the pump body (from new), to improve flow, can it be pressed a little closer to the body. Ive done that before, but not sure how much more it actually improved anything.
Also curiously, what area's of the cooling system (engine block or head) could be effectively smoothed of cast mark lumps n bumps to improve cooling. Some areas would be inaccessible, so would
much be gained?

Yes Jason, i was meaning that we are going to run a cast impellor pump, smoothen the cast marks off, radius any edges, but not only on the pump, but anywhere possible. The main thought of better quality bearings is also to get rid of any parasitic drag. There's about 6 hp loss in the water pump & alternator alone minimum.

[evl666]

Can someone tell me the measurements of the water pump pulley size please. I’ve got the rad out and while I’m here I’ll measure the pulley to make sure I haven’t got an early model bigger one one by mistake

[S pack]

LC 6cyl fan pulley pitch dia. 5.14 inches.

Edited by S pack, 06 February 2021 - 10:45 AM.

[evl666]

Thank you

[ljv8]

I'm not sure why you may have issues but can share my setup and my experiences if it helps.

 

I have a recently built XU1 spec 202, triple SU's, HX improved cam, etc in my LC. 

 

I purchased an off the shelf (Natrad or Adrad) brass three core radiator to suit LC/LJ model NC985A.  This must be similar spec to the XU1 radiator as the body is the same size as the two core, but has a finer three core.  I figured if XU1's managed okay out of the factory with this radiator why should mine be any different.

 

 Rad02.png   391.54K   0 downloads

 

When Ian Tate built the engine he installed a 74c thermo and drilled a small hole in it, maybe to have a small amount of flow before it opens. 

 

 Thermo01.png   364.73K   0 downloads

 

 Thermo02.png   483.34K   0 downloads

 

Filled the radiator with distilled water and as recommended by a few members on this forum I used Red Line WaterWetter also.  I only used half a bottle of it.  It is supposed to keep the water temp down by a few degrees, improve heat transfer, improve your handwriting and make you more attractive. 

https://www.redlineoil.com/waterwetter

 

Radiator hoses are all brand new, I'm not running the factory heater, I'm using a new water pump and standard engine LC GTR fan.  My motor has done about 1200km so it's pretty fresh but have done lots of trips in both cool and stinking hot humid weather.  When driving in the burbs or on the highway it sits on about 72-75c (167f). 

 

 temp.png   381.93K   1 downloads

 

Sitting in traffic even on a 30 degree day it takes a while to nudge toward 80 (175f).  If I'm stuck at the same intersection on a really hot day for two sets of lights it might hit 80 but doesn't go over.  I was on one of Melbourne's worst highways at peak hour on a day that was in the low 30's with high humidity that ground to a halt quite often for the 45minute trip.  Lots of idling in heavy traffic or crawling in 1st or 2nd gear.  I over-heated with a sweaty butt and back on the vinyl seats and a slippery hands on the LC GTR steering wheel, but the engine was fine. 

 

Long story short I have a pretty standard setup, which is all brand new.  My only mods are, no factory heater, a small hole drilled in the 74c thermo and Waterwetter.  So far so good.

 

 

[rodomo]

"It is supposed to keep the water temp down by a few degrees, improve heat transfer, improve your handwriting and make you more attractive."

 

You're full of it but I like that 

[evl666]

Look I wish I knew what the problem is...I too am not running the heater. An update since last time I commented....
I had the tanks cut off and core checked and cleaned. Rad guy said about 10% had some crud in it but everything else was clean as a whistle. I pulled the 77 degree thermostat out and put a high flow 77 back in. Don’t want to go any lower as when moving it’s sits @77 no problems. It’s has definitely gotten better at the lights but it still won’t stop climbing. The thermostat has got a small hole in it from factory very similar to your ljv8. It takes about 5 minutes on an average day temp to go from 180f to 220f at idle in traffic. But if you get consecutive lights your in trouble! Question for you all....at 220f on the gauge it’s not showing any signs at over heating......no burping from the rad cap. Should it be at that temp? I’m starting to wonder if the temp sender being so close to the exhaust port is starting to throw off the actual water temp reading. I’m thinking about tapping a temp sender in the side of the lower thermostat housing where the heater hose feed is to try and get a true reading? Should I hook the heater back up to help with the cooling? Should I delete the water hoses from the inlet manifold?