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#1 74LH

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 11:20 AM

Hey everyone!

 

Are there any members on here who have installed a Truetrac in their banjo diff? What was your experience with it?

 

I'm looking to have one installed in my LH but it seems Harrop are out of stock, kinda hoping I can pick one up second hand from someone if I'm lucky.

 

Also, not interested in BW or 9inch. 

 

Cheers legends, hope you're all holding up in these crazy times!



#2 claysummers

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 12:42 PM

Not me but lash out and get the fine spline version if you want to use it in anger.


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#3 RallyRed

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 01:29 PM

Hi mate,

Probably answered this one before, but i know it's hard to find/search.

 

Depends on your intended use?

 

Street and strip - the Tru Trac is good. Good traction to both wheels. Seamless transition from open diff. to limited slip operation

 

On a race track - also good......however...as soon as you lift a wheel/ ride up over a ripple strip, no  good, turns into a single legger.

This is detailled in their doco, i.e both wheels need to see some form of traction for it to lock up.

 

Pros - silent operation, no clutches to wear out. And it fits into Banjo axle assemble straight up. Fine spline version is prob. better for hard use, but then you are up for another $1k ish for a set of billet axles.

Cons - lift a rear wheel, and it's all over.

Sold mine and went for a Detroit Locker.

 

 

Detroit Locker -

Pros - once locked ( under power) , they are LOCKED. ( from my experience). Never have to worry about 1 wheel spinning. Fits straight into your housing.

Cons - rough as guts and noisey in their operation. Not particularly nice in a street car.  On a track, all the other noise/helmet etc means you don't hear it.

Again, fine spline for hard work.

 

Hope that helps.

Col



#4 74LH

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 01:43 PM

Hi mate,
Probably answered this one before, but i know it's hard to find/search.

Depends on your intended use?

Street and strip - the Tru Trac is good. Good traction to both wheels. Seamless transition from open diff. to limited slip operation

On a race track - also good......however...as soon as you lift a wheel/ ride up over a ripple strip, no good, turns into a single legger.
This is detailled in their doco, i.e both wheels need to see some form of traction for it to lock up.

Pros - silent operation, no clutches to wear out. And it fits into Banjo axle assemble straight up. Fine spline version is prob. better for hard use, but then you are up for another $1k ish for a set of billet axles.
Cons - lift a rear wheel, and it's all over.
Sold mine and went for a Detroit Locker.


Detroit Locker -
Pros - once locked ( under power) , they are LOCKED. ( from my experience). Never have to worry about 1 wheel spinning. Fits straight into your housing.
Cons - rough as guts and noisey in their operation. Not particularly nice in a street car. On a track, all the other noise/helmet etc means you don't hear it.
Again, fine spline for hard work.

Hope that helps.
Col


Thanks mate, yeah it'll be street use only, behind a 355 and built trimatic.

I know there's the mob in QLD selling axles for $800 for the set. Are they any good?

Anywhere else you could recommend I search for a truetrac centre? As I said harrop are showing they're out of stock unfortunately

#5 RallyRed

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 01:51 PM

Havent seen too many 2nd hand.
Maybe ring and ask Harrops what the go is?.
Re axles...dont know about the QLD ones.
Got mine from Keith Croft in Sydney. Also I hear the Bosenjak ones from Sydney are good

#6 74LH

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 03:08 PM

Yeah I would imagine anyone investing in them would likely keep them in long term.
I'll call them this week and see what's going on, I would imagine the virus wouldn't be helping matters.
Thanks for the help

#7 yel327

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 06:43 PM

A 350 with a banjo? I think you’ll be breaking crown and pinion. The rest of the banjo is just a shear pin for the main gears. LC/LJ guys may get away with them due to weight and far smaller tyres plus lots less torque at low rpm. What I’m getting at is you may be wasting $ and end up with a stronger diff later anyway. I guess you could on sell the Trutrac later?

#8 unclefestal34s

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 09:08 PM

i had a custom made 28 spline detroit locker for my banjo,.and custom axles but before you go spending money on axles VN-VS live axles,.the short one is pretty much the same length as Torana axle,.so 2 of them will do the job,..obviously bearings and stud pattern may need change for your application..



#9 Heath

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 10:33 AM

If you want to give it a hard time, I'd be making some more substancial billet bearing caps (for the carrier), and putting a solid bearing spacer (for the pinion) in it too. If you do all of that, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a pretty good and also lightweight diff.

 

Does the Commodore axle with bearing slide into the Banjo axle tube end? Or do you need to cut off the ends and put Commodore ones on? 

I was under the impression that people would build these hotted up Banjos with 28-Spline axles (if you can, I would recommend this) rather than using a smaller "fine spline" Torana design, but not sure if they fit straight in or not.


Edited by Heath, 20 April 2020 - 10:34 AM.


#10 tuxedoss

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 08:16 PM

Been looking into this for last few months , spoke to harrop few weeks ago and they said to email their sales if I want one and they will allocate me one when they are ready . From memory he said around end of April they should be ready .
Axels I spoke to David Bosonjak , he can supply good 28 spline ready to install for $780 . These are the entry level he also has USA billet for $1150. But he said $780 ones are more than enough as the crown wheel and pinion will break long before the axels
Also the 23 spline true trac which allows you to use the standard Torana fine splines is $500 more than the 28 spline so the axels really only cost about $300 and also allow you to pick your stud pattern

#11 Cook

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 10:03 AM

Hi Daniel.  Have you spoken with any diff builders.  I had my 9" built by Andrian at John Taverna Chaasis in Leo St Fawkner (PH9359 5500).  He is old school and seems to know his stuff (not that I know anything to judge).  At the time he said he gets a lot of his axles made by Spicers (I think). Cheers Ron



#12 74LH

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 07:03 PM

For clarification purposes, engine won't be a roaring 355, only around the 420hp mark at the crank. It's a street car, won't see any track or strip use, and it's behind an auto.

The thought behind truetrac was that it was the most cost effective way to get a reliable LSD that would last. I will be getting the billet axles to go with them of course.

If anyone has seen or knows of anything else to look out for, the heads up is definitely welcome :)

As for who will do the work, if available I'll be seeing Jack McNamara as I wouldn't trust anyone else with a diff in Melbourne. Unless the bloke building my engine (who handles race cars for a living) feels confident to take it on.

#13 yel327

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 07:23 PM

Lot of hp for a poor old banjo! Hope the main gears hold together for you.

#14 74LH

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 07:58 PM

Current factory open legger with fine spline axles handles 320hp from a 308 with no dramas at all, over 15,000ks so far, so I would imagine the truetrac would handle the extra 100hp or so wouldn't it? Including the billet axles

#15 Cook

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 08:40 PM

Hi Daniel.  It gets back to my first question, have you spoken to a diff builder.  To re-state, I am no expert so I do a lot of research so that at worst I am as informed as I can be before I make a decision. If Jack McNamara is your man then that's great but what is his thoughts?  What does he like/not like?  I know from my discussions with various specialists trades that some poo poo different brands etc.  As an example I can tell you that Adrian doesn't rate Moser axles (bad luck I already had 31 splines to go in it).  I've spoken to a number of tuners and one will like Holley and the other will cane it. It's the same with a lot of other components like brakes etc.     

 

FWIW I have a stroked 308 which I hope to produce 450-500hp at the flywheel but will never (as long as I'm driving it) see that power.  It will just be a cruiser.  I put in a 9" with truetrac on various recommendations that it is something that I will never have to worry about and (god forbid) if I ever need to sell it, it's there. The extra weight/ power to drive it won't be an issue for me. Cheers Ron


Edited by Cook, 21 April 2020 - 08:45 PM.


#16 Rockoz

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 08:16 AM

A mate of mine had a slightly warmed up 350 Chev in his HQ wagon.

He was running a Muncie behind it and a banjo.

He had a standing order at the wreckers for any banjos that came in.

We were a very small wrecking yard so not huge numbers, but they all went to him.

Then he decided to put a Turbo 350 behind it. he had a girlfriend and wanted to spend more time touching her than the gearshift.

Nice girl, but thats another story.

Once he put the auto in it, he didnt do another diff.

No change in his driving style either.

 

From a diff every month or so to none for the next 5 years or so he owned it once he went auto.

 

 

Cheers

 

Rob



#17 arrimar

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 09:22 AM

My TH350 broke banjo axles on the shift to 2nd gear. Then the pieces jammed and broke the centre.
I'm more mechanically sympathetic now days.

#18 yel327

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 09:47 AM

I used to break them in my LX with mild 202 and Trimatic.

#19 rexy

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Posted 22 April 2020 - 09:57 PM

I must say, it seems a fairly complicated solution to the weak diff problem.

For street use I’ve never understood the point of a diff that gives zero traction if one wheel loses traction.

A good old well built LSD is perfect for all street happenings. Rain, hail, snow or shine it will grip.

 

My old mild 308 in the LX broke many axles and a few crownwheels. I became expert at changing centres efficiently.

 

Put a 9 inch in. Proven strong cost effective solution. You won’t regret it.



#20 76lxhatch

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 07:57 AM

I agree that there's probably a better solution than throwing big money at a Banjo which will still have significant weak points. I don't necessarily think a nine inch is the best option for a mild engined car but unfortunately you can't beat the bang for buck so they have become the defacto standard.

 

I disagree with the comments about a Tru-trac being a poor LSD, I've found it to be excellent for handling and cornering. It gets very good drive through corners even where the inside wheel is significantly un-weighted, that one spins slowly while both still drive forward with maximum vehicle control. In comparison a mechanical locker causes both wheels to lock and spin suddenly and the car goes into snap oversteer, or if you don't have much power down then it will just sledge understeer, hopeless for handling. Most clutch or cone LSDs work similar to the Tru-trac, you won't get any movement with a wheel off the ground but their disadvantage is they're not intended for regular use and will be worn out in no time at all if you use or abuse them much. Of course there are situations where a different option is more suitable (drag racing, off road) - same old story, horses for courses.



#21 74LH

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 07:15 PM

Ok so a little more clarification for you all.
My current torana is on the road and running with a 308, trimatic and fine spline banjo. I keep hearing of people who break them because they're weak and shit and so on and so forth. Reality for me is I invested in having the current banjo crown and wheel from a Commodore Salisbury installed and it set up by Jack McNamara, and it's been faultless for over 10,000ks now. I don't drive the car really hard and don't intend to, I believe you all when you say you've had nightmares with them but frankly that hasn't been my experience at all. And I have plenty of friends running banjos with similar experiences to mine.

Now as for cost effectiveness, you have to remember that I have already spent dollars on wheels and brakes etc as it's a running car, and I don't want to spend that money again.
Now with the truetrac centre and billet axles I'm looking at around $2200 in materials and then labour on top. But I won't have to pay for swapping/modifying tailshaft, wheels, brakes, fabrication of mounts/suspension attachment points and labour to fit a 9inch with an LSD, I also have an adjustable sway bar fitted which may need to be changed out. Now if anyone knows a diff shop that will do that (parts and labour) for less than the costs I'm looking at then I'm willing to listen

#22 RallyRed

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 07:46 PM

yeah, it's definately horses for courses mate. Banjo & Tru trac prob suits your needs, so no dramas.
Some are harder on cars than others...
simple. If it works, then good.

#23 74LH

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 07:55 PM

Just realised how that message may have read, not having a go at anyone I should say, I value input from you all as I may learn something or have more to consider along the way. Just trying to seek information and learn as I go. I won't be purchasing or having work done til at least later in the year, gotta build an engine first!

#24 RallyRed

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 08:22 PM

👍😊

#25 rexy

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 11:33 PM

9 inch bolts straight in to existing mounts and you can use your current tailshaft if you want to, just chose the appropriate yoke for the diff. No need to change brakes or wheels. Easy to install by yourself. Might take half a day to do the swap if you don’t have a helper.

 

You are just up for the cost of the diff itself.






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