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Brougham, not Holden.


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#51 Dr Terry

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 11:58 AM

I'm talking only about the Brougham Doc. I'm aware of Holden history, even that they once made F@4RDS

Yeah, I was just answering generally not to you in particular.

 

I don't think that there is any doubt that the Brougham was a Holden & was badged as such.

 

Where the confusion begins is that Holden was a brand of car made by a company called General Motors Holdens (Holden Ltd today)  & they are not the same thing.

 

The Commodore thing is different because cars based on a Commodore platform (Statesmans, Utes, Monaros etc.) are not really Commodores per se, are they ? The Ute is probably the one that most get "wrong". You don't hear guys saying I've got a Commodore Monaro or Commodore Caprice, but you do hear people say Commodore Ute all the time.

 

Holden muddied the waters even further with the introduction of the Omega nameplate in VE. They called the entry level VE the Commodore Omega sedan, but the called the entry level Ute the Holden Omega Utility. They "fixed" this with the VF where the entry level Commodore was the Commodore Evoke sedan, but the entry level Ute was the Holden Ute.

 

Dr Terry

 


 



#52 yel327

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 12:26 PM

geeze Shiney...does that compliance plate tell us that a Compliance plate can tell us absolutely nothing about the manufacturer?


It just makes it more confusing. Toyota Corolla and Holden Nova were built side by side in the GMH Dandenong VAP. One has a Holden compliance plate, one has a Toyota one. Lexcen is no different.

Think back to the 60’s. Chevrolet and Pontiac were built side by side with Holden and Torana in GMH Assembly plants. The bodies were assembled at GMH’s Woodville plant. They both have GMH plates on them. Look under the hood of the GMC Ambulances from the early 2000’s. The have Holden Limited compliance plates. The Chevrolet trucks from the 70’s bear all GMH plates including the Compliance Plate. It is just how it was. I bet you find the Nissan utes and Ford Maverick have respectively Ford and Nissan plates on them.

#53 Zook

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 06:22 PM

No Holden blurb in the Statesman ad, that's for sure.
attachicon.gifIMG_1539.JPG

Can we go back a bit and take notice of the GMH symbol and that under are words including 'Holden'?

#54 Zook

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 06:53 PM

How's this guy...not just a Holden Brougham...lol.
Edit: Seriously this just came up

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Edited by Zook, 21 June 2020 - 06:55 PM.


#55 RallyRed

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 07:18 PM

it's everywhere..

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#56 yel327

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 07:56 PM

Look at that truck intercooler scoop on that HQ!

#57 eyepeeler

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 08:15 PM

I guess one way to look at it is this
Manufacturer / Model / Model Type / Luxury Level
GMH / Holden / FJ / Standard
GMH / Holden / FJ / Business
GMH / Holden / FJ / Special

GMH / Holden / HK / Kingswood
GMH / Holden / HK / Premier

GMH / Torana / LH / SLR
GMH / Torana / LX / SLR

Etc etc
Would that be about right?

#58 yel327

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 09:37 PM

Should be:

Manufacturer/ Car Line / Series / Model. Where it gets funky is HT-HQ have many more models as they distinguish between 6cyl and V8. So you get for example:

GMH / Holden / HG / Kingswood sedan ie 80369GR (using Pagewood code)
GMH / Holden / HG / V8 Kingswood sedan ie 80469GR.

It all breaks down later in the 70’s though when they were planning to introduce Commodore. We all know the dithering going on that saw HQ replacement for 1973 model year cancelled and HQ extended until 1975 model year. Backwards and forwards on WA or VA etc. They had the Gemini, Torana, Holden and Statesman car lines but weren’t sure how Commodore was to fit in. My gut is it appears that the initial plan was to somehow end up with Gemini, bigger 4cyl, Commodore, Holden and Statesman maybe even with Torana thrown in. Then saw what sold. The bigger 4cyl was the Sunbird, which they called Holden Sunbird possibly at the same time they chose to name the Holden Commodore. I guess it came a time to use the Holden name as a brand rather than a car line so they called it a Holden Sunbird not Torana Sunbird. The Holden Commodore was the next size car. What becomes seemingly weird though is UC, where some of the Toranas were actually option packs on a Sunbird rather than being separate models like LX. In reality this is no different to a HQ GTS sedan where option XV4 changes a V8 Kingswood sedan into a GTS sedan. It’d be good to find all the internal paperwork detailing all the decision making on all this rather than the outcomes.

#59 Shiney005

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 10:05 AM

Out of interest, does anyone have a photo of a compliance plate image off an Elizabeth/Woodville LH or LX?

Of the 130 odd full sets I have details for, they are all Dandenong, with 2 thirds of LH's going down Production Line 4 and one third going down Production Line 5. All L34's were on Production Line 4.

All LX's were Dandenong Production Line 5 (inc all A9X's) except for one 1-78 SS that went down Production Line 6.

I suppose the Adelaide cars would only be pre production?



#60 yel327

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 10:14 AM

Yes. I was looking for Woodville units or the pilots. Just wanted to see the compliance plate.

#61 Shiney005

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 10:46 AM

I've got what looks like a 3-74 LH SZDAN.

Attached File  .1 Very early LH (3).JPG   236.17K   2 downloads



#62 yel327

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 11:08 AM

Dandenong assembly though.

#63 Shiney005

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 03:08 PM

Someone has obviously slipped a roofy into my coffee this morning. Forget everything I said about production lines at Dandenong. There was only one.



#64 StephenSLR

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Posted 26 June 2020 - 02:11 PM

Not that old chestnut again Col
remember last time ✌️ brother


Wasn't there a Torana, not Holden debate here a while back?

 

hahaha.

 

taneille-gray-1896.jpg

 

https://www.whichcar...cars_newsletter

 

How about this Brougham convertible?

 

*Runs and hides

 

s






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