30 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Interesting

 

https://news.yahoo.c...-180026843.html

 

[Rockoz]

Communities and children of color?

I often wonder who writes announcements like this.

 

Not sure I would really like the advent of hydrogen powered vehicles.

 

Hindenburg anyone?

 

In my role as a firefighter, LPG was bad enough to deal with.

Locally though, one of the coal carting companies, along with the local mine, played with methane extracted from the mine to power one of the trucks on a trial basis.

It was a Volvo, and they had to keep detuning the gas flow. The truck would spin wheels fully loaded on a dry road at speeds over 80km/h.

The biggest drawback was not being able to pump the tanks with high enough pressure to liquify the gas.

It had to refuel each load, which meant it could only make about 8 trips instead of the usual 12 or so that the other trucks could do each shift.

 

It was an interesting experiment, but was deemed as being unfeasible as an alternative.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[yel327]

The bigger issue is building coal fired or nuclear power plants to charge the vehicles. But I guess that means the emissions are then not in California (coal) or pushed out for the future to deal with (nuclear).

Hydrogen is the future though, use solar/wind to create it and when it combusts the exhaust is water.

Coming to NSW soon:
https://www.google.c...rticle/12355138

Edited by yel327, 04 July 2020 - 09:46 AM.

[Ice]

The way the world is going i reckon the horse and cart might make a comeback
a bit of hay and off you go zero emissions

[yel327]

What about the Methane Gene? Cows produce huge amounts and it is far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Horses do too but not nearly as much:

https://horses.exten...-an-automobile/

Edited by yel327, 04 July 2020 - 10:06 AM.

[Ice]

Yeah a little bit of poop

[Rockoz]

The bigger issue is building coal fired or nuclear power plants to charge the vehicles. But I guess that means the emissions are then not in California (coal) or pushed out for the future to deal with (nuclear).

Hydrogen is the future though, use solar/wind to create it and when it combusts the exhaust is water.

Coming to NSW soon:
https://www.google.c...rticle/12355138

 

Then there is the upgrade to the wires on poles that most people dismiss as an issue.

Most areas are already close to their limits in the delivery of power.

Some say batteries are the answer, but they dont bother looking in to what is required in terms of mining etc to produce a battery.

 

There are way too many people who make decisions without looking at the entire process through whole of life.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[yel327]

Yes, getting the power from the generation location to the vehicle charging location is as much an issue as the generation itself. Plus NIMBY applies to new transmission lines.

[LC Rusty]

What about the Methane Gene? Cows produce huge amounts and it is far worse than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Horses do too but not nearly as much:

https://horses.exten...-an-automobile/

Didn’t emissions drop during lockdown? Cows wernt in lockdown 😃. Maybe they dont put out as much gas as they thought

Edited by LC Rusty, 06 July 2020 - 06:30 AM.

[S pack]

Didn’t emissions drop during lockdown? Cows wernt in lockdown . Maybe they dont put out as much gas as they thought

yes emissions did drop due to less vehicles on the road, less visible smog pollution being the most easily identifiable. Lockdown however was never going to result in zero emissions, only a reduction directly proportionate to any drop in fossil fuel consumption.

Edited by S pack, 06 July 2020 - 07:02 AM.

[Redslur]

I fear the day is getting closer when we can't drive our old beastys. Hope I am wrong......

[yel327]

Might just mean conversion to a gas or to run on E85.

[claysummers]

With a van and a ute I’ve got plenty of room for batteries. I wonder how the old grey crash box would go behind a big block DC donk.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[yel327]

You wouldn’t fit batteries, just an engine that runs on alternative fuel. Like an engine from a VE that will run on E85.

[RallyRed]

Interesting, just filled out a Toyota ownership survey ( for wifey's LC200) and there were multiple questions in there about future purchases w.r.t hydrogen powered cars.
Wondered what that was all about

[Shiney005]

Out of the nine companies mentioned in the article, only one is saying they will go with hydrogen. So it will never happen. Instead, we are going to run our trucks on coal, and lithium. Brilliant.

 

 Its+not+the+lithium+its+the+rare+earth+metals+like+_196b9e513fffe36a5d6aa697c17b16cd.jpg   36.23K   2 downloads

Edited by Shiney005, 07 July 2020 - 08:47 AM.

[u1 71]

Mining Magnate Twiggy Forrest is involved with Hydrogen to Perth

[Shiney005]

Porsche is already onto it.

https://www.whichcar...fuel-production

[yel327]

It is Hydrogen at the end of the day. They can dress it up as synthetic fuel, but it is excess renewable energy from wind and solar cracking water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then combining the Hydrogen H2 with Carbon Dioxide CO2 to create Methane CH4 or Methanol CH3OH. Either can be used as fuel, Methane is a gas and Methanol a liquid. We use a simple liquid Hydrocarbon already in lots of fuel at the pump, both E10 and E85 gas respectively 10% and 85% denatured Ethanol (Metho) C2H5OH. Pretty simple to use Methanol instead. If you combine either with air, spark and compression you get energy and CO2 out the tailpipe. However if you use Hydrogen as a fuel (no Carbon involved) the only emission is water.

Edited by yel327, 10 December 2020 - 03:52 PM.

[ozyozyozy]

More hurdles for hydrogen than electric at this point.

Electric will happen, we have no choice. Infrastructure to support it is not there in most countries. All the goody goodies say how much cheaper and better it will be. Someone will have to pay for the infrastructure, the governments wont want to.
There are already talks of implementing taxes to electric owners to help support it.
End game, will be self drive cars, less maintenance, less accidents, less congestion, they can program cars to merge and flow with each other.

[Rockoz]

It is Hydrogen at the end of the day. They can dress it up as synthetic fuel, but it is excess renewable energy from wind and solar cracking water into Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then combining the Hydrogen H2 with Carbon Dioxide CO2 to create Methane CH4 or Methanol CH3OH. Either can be used as fuel, Methane is a gas and Methanol a liquid. We use a simple liquid Hydrocarbon already in lots of fuel at the pump, both E10 and E85 gas respectively 10% and 85% denatured Ethanol (Metho) C2H5OH. Pretty simple to use Methanol instead. If you combine either with air, spark and compression you get energy and CO2 out the tailpipe. However if you use Hydrogen as a fuel (no Carbon involved) the only emission is water.

The E10 or E85 isnt denatured ethanol. It is pure ethanol.

Metho is denatured to discourage people from drinking it.

It is the key ingredient in what most people drink.

Alcohol. It is ethanol. 4.7% or so with your beer.

40% (80 proof) with spirits.

 

I see huge problems with hydrogen as a fuel.

It is dangerous stuff.

To se it to fuel cars with the idiot drivers we have around is asking for a big bang.
As a firefighter I have had to deal with LPG cars, then airbags, which can be problematic.

Having hydrogen will be fun.(insert sarcasm here)

 

 But it could get Darwinism working better.

 

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[yel327]

If it isn’t now it used to be. I researched it when we had BOGAS in Hunter region in the early 90’s to see if it was OK to use in my Holdens. It was 10% denatured Ethanol, I had the MSDS for it which stated as much.

I understand the problems associated with Hydrogen. I was pointing out that if it is combined with carbon based compounds to create a hydrocarbon and used as fuel, the exhaust will contain CO2. The main point of the argument to get rid of IC engine vehicles is they emit CO2. If used as a straight fuel there is only water out of the exhaust. They beauty of hydrogen as a fuel is it comes from water, and when burnt it gives off energy and water. The conundrum has always been that it takes more energy to turn water into hydrogen and oxygen than you get by burning it. However with massive peaks of solar and wind generated energy, creation of hydrogen can become a very effective energy storage system. As you say though the practicality and safe use of it is a massive challenge, so much so that it would be better used to fuel rotating generation (rather than coal) to fill in the energy troughs when its dark or the wind isn’t blowing, and then we can all have electric cars with no CO2 emission in the energy chain. But the safe use of it is always a massive undertaking.

Edited by yel327, 11 December 2020 - 09:33 PM.