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LC LJ Clutch Adjutment Takeup Position


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#26 Indy Orange

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:39 PM

This is the clip Rodney ,smaller than the wiper one ,same style.

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#27 Indy Orange

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:42 PM

I second the fork pushrod at 420 also.

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#28 grumpy xu1

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Posted 26 November 2020 - 08:45 PM

If you're referring to the clips like the 1's that hold the shifter linkages on, Doug @ 2doorstore sells them via ebay for around $5 each. Got like a little pigtail on them ?

Oh, those clips, i can't remember a name on them.

#29 ljv8

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 07:52 AM

Thanks Paul for the pics and re-confirming the rod length. 

 

My clips are long gone, guessing they were fairly easily lost and the previous owner of my rat trap drilled a hole and fitted a thin flat washer and those pigtail clips that hold the shifter linkages as Gary mentioned.  As long as it holds, I'm okay with that. 



#30 TOERUNNER

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Posted 27 November 2020 - 09:48 AM

Thanks Paul for the pics and re-confirming the rod length. 

 

My clips are long gone, guessing they were fairly easily lost and the previous owner of my rat trap drilled a hole and fitted a thin flat washer and those pigtail clips that hold the shifter linkages as Gary mentioned.  As long as it holds, I'm okay with that. 

I guess i will be doing the same as i can't find those clips anywhere



#31 claysummers

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 09:08 AM

Thank god for hydraulics. Those things are a shit fight. My HK had hydraulic and driving my friends HT clutch was horrible by comparison. I know you want it original but wonder why they changed from hydraulic.


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#32 grumpy xu1

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 05:26 PM

Probably cheaper, gmc used the rat trap from about 1965 apparently.

#33 ljv8

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 05:42 PM

HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!

 

Rat trap is all re-assembled and back in.  I had a look at the action while someone was pressing the pedal and there was a slight bit of sideways flex on the main upright that bolts to the body but looked fine.  Adjusted the clutch as per factory spec, leave return spring off, tighten by hand until there is no slack, then back-off 2.5 turns. 

 

Fired her up and clutch to the floor but couldn't get it into reverse or 1st.  Crunch, grind..insert lots of swear words here...

 

Back under the car wound it in two turns.  Still no good, wound it in two more turns, still no good.  Ended up having to wind it all the way in, until there was practically no more threads left at the back of the rod and I could just get it into gear.  Clutch would engage just off the floor.  Getting it into first was difficult was doing 2nd gear take offs.  2nd to 3rd was also very difficult to get it into gear same as dropping it back to 2nd.  Without the engine running the gearbox shifts through the gears without issue.  Feels like the clutch just isn't disengaging enough, but at the current adjustment on release I think the clutch fork is up against the clutch prongs because I can hear what sounds like the bearing spinning. 

 

I think my issue probably goes to the 1st reply of my post made by Brian.  I have a feeling there isn't enough leverage on the clutch fork to push it all the way in. Possibly my pivot pin needs to be spaced out to give the fork more leverage or maybe my fork is slightly bent.  I cleaned it before putting it in and it looked okay.  It was certainly in better condition than my spare fork, which cracked years ago and was badly welded.  Still can't discount an issue with the fork so will need to pull it out and check.

 

Means I have to drop the gearbox again unfortunately but I'm at that point of it being un-drivable.  With a RWC inspection booked in later this week, on a path to club reg I'm going to have to try everything fix it.

 

Now I have a few spare M20's.  One from my original LJ, and one from a HQ 253 Kingsy.  I pulled the bell housings off as it appeared the HQ pivot ball was longer than the LJ one.  Turns out after drifting the pivot balls out the HQ one is definitely longer.  I'm thinking I'm going to wack this one in, rather than spacing out the LJ one with washers.  The ball diameter is identical, it just protrudes further.  See pic below.

 

From the shoulder the HQ pivot ball is 5mm taller.  I'm hoping this is enough to make a substantial difference.

Attached File  Bell Housing Sockets.png   189.66K   1 downloads

 

This is how far the fork pivots with LJ socket.

Attached File  Bell Housing Sockets LJ.png   461.24K   1 downloads

 

Hard to get a photo with the exact same angle but it's clearly visible the fork pivots much more with the HQ socket.  Hopefully it's not too much.

Attached File  Bell Housing Sockets Hq V8.png   495.71K   1 downloads

 

I will see how it goes and report back. 

 

Clay I'm guessing GMH moved from hydraulic to the rat trap due to a cost cutting exercise.  They certainly didn't do it for our sanity.  I'm guessing however in this instance a hydraulic clutch may not be my solution if it's a leverage issue. 



#34 S pack

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:00 PM

My money is on the problem being in the clutch & pressure plate.



#35 u1 71

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:11 PM

Is your clutch plate installed correctly ?

#36 grumpy xu1

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:27 PM

My money is on the problem being in the clutch & pressure plate.


I reckon that i would agree with Dave.

#37 ljv8

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:29 PM

Yeah will check that.  Ian Tate built my motor and fitted the flywheel and pressure plate, clutch assembly before I picked it up.  Clutch was from BGT clutch in Dandenong, from memory was an Excedy.  I would be surprised if he got it the wrong way around but will check when the box is out tomorrow.  You never know, stranger things have happened.

 

Long hub to flywheel from memory.  



#38 S pack

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:38 PM

Yeah will check that.  Ian Tate built my motor and fitted the flywheel and pressure plate, clutch assembly before I picked it up.  Clutch was from BGT clutch in Dandenong, from memory was an Excedy.  I would be surprised if he got it the wrong way around but will check when the box is out tomorrow.  You never know, stranger things have happened.

 

Long hub to flywheel from memory.  


What engine/transmission combination are we talking about.

 

Ok so just had a read back of your earlier posts and seems it is an Aussie M20?

If yes then long hub protrusion on clutch plate towards flywheel.


Edited by S pack, 29 November 2020 - 08:42 PM.


#39 ljv8

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 08:48 PM

Yeah correct Dave red 6 M20, thanks for confirming.

 

I don’t have any clear old photos but found two one when on engine stand and one when it was on the crane about to be dropped in.  Looks like it’s the right way around but will check tomorrow.

 

Attached File  C05E5125-23A5-4B46-A84D-68E5174CC005.jpeg   463.4K   3 downloads

 

Attached File  4BF0CABD-65AB-4B12-A770-3D560287091A.jpeg   846.07K   1 downloads

 

 



#40 S pack

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Posted 29 November 2020 - 09:49 PM

If clutch plate is install correctly then the other thing to check thoroughly is the pressure plate. Weak or cracked diaphragm fingers will cause the issue you are experiencing.



#41 ljv8

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 05:28 AM

Ok thanks Dave will check that too.



#42 S pack

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 06:38 AM

Here is a handy fault diagnosis guide from Exedy.

https://www.exedy-af...index/id/02-04/


Edited by S pack, 30 November 2020 - 06:38 AM.


#43 ljv8

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 09:18 AM

Cool thanks Dave, I think I may have found the issue which you helped twig my curiosity from a past post.

 

Last night I was reading every post I could find on clutch issues.  This morning I took off the inspection cover and pushed the clutch pedal to the floor, and propped the pedal down with a good old club lock.  Got underneath and it wasn't released fully but most of all I noticed the rat trap push rod barely moved 1cm.  When I released the pedal the cable/rod that connects the pedal to the rat trap was loose.  Got inside and giggled the lever on the pedal and it had lots of play. 

 

http://www.gmh-toran...-end-lc-torana/

You gave the advice: Also check the clutch rod anchor pin on the clutch pedal. It may be half worn through.

 

Pulled the pedal out and low and behold we have a bucket load of wear on the pin and arm.
Attached File  Clutch pedal.png   349.07K   7 downloads

 

Unfortunately Rares don't have stock of the replacement clutch control 2809745 until after Christmas.  Doesn't matter will weld up the pin and smoothen it out, and weld up the control arm and re-drill it. 

 

So thanks mate for your wisdom past and present :spoton:

 

Think I'm heading towards happy days!



#44 grumpy xu1

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 10:58 AM

Yep, that would cause a problem alright. A good tig, file, tig & drill & you should have a much nicer feeling clutch. At least you have found it, it can only get better now & this may help the next person.

#45 S pack

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 11:30 AM

Cool thanks Dave, I think I may have found the issue which you helped twig my curiosity from a past post.

 

Last night I was reading every post I could find on clutch issues.  This morning I took off the inspection cover and pushed the clutch pedal to the floor, and propped the pedal down with a good old club lock.  Got underneath and it wasn't released fully but most of all I noticed the rat trap push rod barely moved 1cm.  When I released the pedal the cable/rod that connects the pedal to the rat trap was loose.  Got inside and giggled the lever on the pedal and it had lots of play. 

 

http://www.gmh-toran...-end-lc-torana/

You gave the advice: Also check the clutch rod anchor pin on the clutch pedal. It may be half worn through.

 

Pulled the pedal out and low and behold we have a bucket load of wear on the pin and arm.
attachicon.gifClutch pedal.png

 

Unfortunately Rares don't have stock of the replacement clutch control 2809745 until after Christmas.  Doesn't matter will weld up the pin and smoothen it out, and weld up the control arm and re-drill it. 

 

So thanks mate for your wisdom past and present :spoton:

 

Think I'm heading towards happy days!

Thanks Steve. Lucky you found that post, any thoughts of an issue with a worn clutch pedal anchor pin had completely vacated my grey matter.

Keeping my fingers crossed this resolves your problem.

 

Cheers

Dave.
 



#46 claysummers

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 02:44 PM

Glad you found a solution. While the rat trap was probably cheaper back then as suggested, conversion to hydraulic is a relatively cheap and simple proposition for the Australian M 20 or any other rat trap set up using FE to HK master, FE to EK slave, CRS or Dellow slave adaptor and adapting existing pedal, possibly using push rod from previous models mentioned. I suppose adapting the master to your firewall would be the trickiest bit. Prease consider.......

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#47 ljv8

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 05:53 PM

We have a result!  I only have a mig, but was able to weld up the pin wear and file it down back to shape.  Welded up the elongated hole and re-drilled to suit. 

 

Painted up, re-fitted and the clutch is much, much better now.  It still needs to be wound in a bit but no where near as much as the old worn setup, and have the leverage for the throw out needed.  I can now easily get it into reverse and through the gears without issue.  Even when warmed up all is good. 

 

Attached File  Repaired.png   563.05K   2 downloads

 

The only thing I didn't reco on the car was the gearbox, as I wanted to try the standard M20 6cyl ratios before recoing it, and the budget has taken a pounding just to get it to this point.  I realised pretty quickly with an XU1 spec motor it's screaming out for the taller ratios of the XU1 spec M20.  When I reco the gearbox early next year, when the budget recovers might do some forum research on either a cable clutch conversion or hydraulic.  I'm more inclined to go cable but will see how it goes. 

 

All good for RWC this week which is a relief. 

 

Thanks again for everyone's input and ideas, this car build would have been much more difficult without this valuable forum.



#48 TOERUNNER

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 06:45 PM

That's good news mate, i will be pulling my pedals out this weekend so i will definitely be checking my clutch pedal for any wear



#49 ljv8

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 08:11 PM

Yeah good call Rodney.  Less pain to repair ahead of the game than to find out later like me. 



#50 S pack

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Posted 30 November 2020 - 08:21 PM

We have a result!  I only have a mig, but was able to weld up the pin wear and file it down back to shape.  Welded up the elongated hole and re-drilled to suit. 

 

Painted up, re-fitted and the clutch is much, much better now.  It still needs to be wound in a bit but no where near as much as the old worn setup, and have the leverage for the throw out needed.  I can now easily get it into reverse and through the gears without issue.  Even when warmed up all is good. 

 

attachicon.gifRepaired.png

 

The only thing I didn't reco on the car was the gearbox, as I wanted to try the standard M20 6cyl ratios before recoing it, and the budget has taken a pounding just to get it to this point.  I realised pretty quickly with an XU1 spec motor it's screaming out for the taller ratios of the XU1 spec M20.  When I reco the gearbox early next year, when the budget recovers might do some forum research on either a cable clutch conversion or hydraulic.  I'm more inclined to go cable but will see how it goes. 

 

All good for RWC this week which is a relief. 

 

Thanks again for everyone's input and ideas, this car build would have been much more difficult without this valuable forum.

:spoton:
 






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