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#1 _chriso-k_

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 05:21 PM

Howdy all out there in Torana land. What you all say about the "clear over base", two stage paint system, compared to acrylic?

Ok, here we go, this base coat system is called a two stage "2K base" paint that works with acrylic systems. . Well, you can be excused for thinking that anything 2K refers to two pack paint. As in the use of paint hardener, isocyanate, too dangerous to spray at home, probably illegal to spray at home as the neighbors would get high on the stuff (not that I care with one neighbor on one side)  etc. Get the picture?

Well, apparently you can use this base coat, two stage system paint, without the need for hardener. And also, they say this base coat can be used with acrylic systems paint. So you can use acrylic primer underneath it along with acrylic clear on top of it. Well, here we go, why is it called 2K and why/how does it works with acrylic systems? And if used with acrylic systems, could there be any bad/adverse effects later down the track? Such as de lamination, shrinking etc. And, they say a two stage base coat application is better than acrylic. True or false? So, what do I do, paint my pride and joy Torana in, base coat or acrylic?

Opinions and advises, and a rundown on this base coat, from paint experts, much appreciated



#2 grumpy xu1

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 08:21 PM

By base coat, they are simply stating the 2 pack colour. As in it's mixed at say a 1 to 1 ratio, like 1 part of the yellow, 1 part of the thinners (reducer). It is not referring to the rest of the system, nor the clear over the top. No mixing & matching the 2 systems together is not a good idea. I think that you should go to a better quality paint supply shop, with a salesperson who knows what should be done, not just a counter jockey. Or you'll be destined for dramas. 2 pack should all be used as 1 entire system. If you're using acrylic, you could use 2 pack primers under it though, as the acrylic moves more than 2 pack. So acrylic primers under 2 pack is a bad idea. For the difference of say $500 in the primers, it will be worth stepping up to the 2 pack in the end.

#3 _chriso-k_

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 09:58 PM

1K = Acrylic - single component paints that dry in the air

 

2K = two pack - requires a hardener, catalyst or activator.

 

Single stage can refer to both 1K and 2K applications.

 

Two stage refers to a base coat/clear coat system. Whereby clear coat must be applied on top to give it its gloss and protection.

 

Not all base coat/clear coat systems are 2K coatings

 

The ones that aren't can be used in an acrylic format. Only the desired colour is used. The rest of the recipe is acrylic

 

Or may be I'm missing something here.

 



#4 myss427

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:08 AM

House of colour paints (Candy's) are a mix of the two, acrylic base with no hardener, and 2K clear over the top, and if you don't use there entire system no warranty if de lamination occurs!



#5 _chriso-k_

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 12:06 PM

There's a paint manufacturer here in Sydney that makes a basecoat labelled "900 Basecoat"

 

I've spoken to these people and they've advised this product works with acrylics. As in primers and clearcoats. And, it does not require a hardener. Although you can use a hardener if you wish. You can reduce it with either acrylic thinners or their own specific thinners.

.

When i look up this paint on the manufacturers website, its listed as a 2K basecoat. But the paint manufacturer advises its more of an acrylic based paint. .Then why call it 2K, I ask?



#6 LHSL

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 04:21 PM

I painted my car in 2k base coat not a COB paint as it was a solid red colour. Turned out ok. Got painted in a booth though lol.

#7 grumpy xu1

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 09:23 PM

I'm not going to keep going on with the answers.

1 k (single pack) "is" acrylic yes !

2 k is the (2 pack) system. Hardener is "usually" only in either the solid top coat, or the clear that you would put over the top of a metallic colour or a "base" coat colur.

Single stage refers to the fact its not requiring a clear over the top. Ie a solid colour. In either the acrylic or 2 pack system.

2 stage refers to a clear being used over the top.

No matter whether you are using acrylic or 2 pack, "base coat" usually refers to the metallic or a colour, being the base coat & getting it's uv stability and gloss level from the clear (clear over base, C O B !

Acrylic type 2 pack is a 2 pack but reacts like the characteristics of an acrylic with reactions to other paint systems like traditional enamel.

They're calling it 2k, because it's part of a complete 2k system & it SHOULD be used as such.

It can be mixed over the acrylic, but it should not be done & any good shop or painter, certainly would not do that. Paint companies invest millions of dollars in developing a system

That works as a complete system.

#8 grumpy xu1

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 09:33 PM

Mixing and matching thinners can be a sketchy thing to do, especially with metallics. As for thinning with a different system all together, i can't say i have ever heard a paint company or quality paint shop ever suggest that. Buy a complete system & use it. Start with their 2 pack epoxy etch, 2 pack high build & then either a 2 pack top coat over the top or acrylic. You can definitely put acrylic colour over the top of the 2 pack system, but you definitely should not put 2 pack over acrylic.

There is so many reasons why i would pick the 2 pack system. The acrylic is a pita in my opinion.

#9 jd lj

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 09:23 AM

So just to keep the useful information going, how about the water based automotive paints that I've heard that some paint shops use.

#10 I'm a Red Motor fiend

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 10:20 AM

We use Sikkens water at my shop. I spray with it everyday, and can't imagine going back to a solvent base.
It's a prerequisite for us as an RAA approved repairer as it's more "eco friendly" than solvent. But then we go and spray a 2k clear over the top.
The water is obviously only for COB, we still have a 2k system for DG colours.

^^ Gary is completely on the money above as per usual.
Stick with one system only, don't mix and match or it will end badly.
If your going to paint over acrylic, put only acrylic back on it.

#11 grumpy xu1

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 12:14 PM

Usually called water born nowadays James. The first time it was released it was called water based & it certainly wasn't sorted out for the job at the time.

I "presumed" that the restoration in the thread would be going back to bare metal Adam, that's why i mentioned going all 2 pack. It's not really a great expense to go from acrylic paints to 2 pack.

#12 claysummers

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 12:49 PM

No expert here but my guru Steve turner at Lonsdale Paints had me use protek dulon acrylic high build and solid colour over epotec 408 epoxy two pack. The high build primer sticks to well keyed epoxy 2k fine but the acrylic top coat doesn't. Alternstive was to use all 2k.

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#13 grumpy xu1

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 05:27 PM

No expert here but my guru Steve turner at Lonsdale Paints had me use protek dulon acrylic high build and solid colour over epotec 408 epoxy two pack. The high build primer sticks to well keyed epoxy 2k fine but the acrylic top coat doesn't. Alternstive was to use all 2k.
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You shouldn't be using top coat over an epoxy, that is the idea of high build step in the middle. A lot of epoxy etch's can't have metallic paint put over them without problems. I don't want to keep adding to this thread to avoid any more confusion. The original poster only needs to get a direction to go first. I'm not trying to be rude, but let's get that sorted first & ive said the process at least 5 times on here over time, a search should bring it up.

#14 claysummers

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 06:51 PM




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#15 _chriso-k_

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 07:52 PM

Guys, check out this video and I'd definitely be interested in your opinions. Is the guy on the vid full of it, or is he onto something.



#16 _chriso-k_

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 08:22 PM

I'm not going to keep going on with the answers.

1 k (single pack) "is" acrylic yes !

2 k is the (2 pack) system. Hardener is "usually" only in either the solid top coat, or the clear that you would put over the top of a metallic colour or a "base" coat colur.

Single stage refers to the fact its not requiring a clear over the top. Ie a solid colour. In either the acrylic or 2 pack system.

2 stage refers to a clear being used over the top.

No matter whether you are using acrylic or 2 pack, "base coat" usually refers to the metallic or a colour, being the base coat & getting it's uv stability and gloss level from the clear (clear over base, C O B !

Acrylic type 2 pack is a 2 pack but reacts like the characteristics of an acrylic with reactions to other paint systems like traditional enamel.

They're calling it 2k, because it's part of a complete 2k system & it SHOULD be used as such.

It can be mixed over the acrylic, but it should not be done & any good shop or painter, certainly would not do that. Paint companies invest millions of dollars in developing a system

That works as a complete system.


Good info. I guess at the end of the day what you're saying is, stick to either a complete acrylic application or, a complete 2 pack application. Two pack would be a good way to go if you have access to the right facilities (booth), which I don't. Obviously you can't spray this stuff (2 pack) in your garage. Your neighbors would get high on the stuff. And your dog may drop dead, Your budgie may be hanging on it's perch upside down.  But, I can.definitely say I sprayed my daughters bonnet on her Mazda using the base coat system.  I used acrylic primer under the base coat and I used acrylic clear on top of the base coat. The end result? Well, after it was buffed, I reckon if you looked into the paint work you'd see all your whiskers and  be able to have a good shave. As for any possible adverse reactions down the track, anyone's guess. 



#17 _chriso-k_

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 09:04 PM

I painted my car in 2k base coat not a COB paint as it was a solid red colour. Turned out ok. Got painted in a booth though lol.


Yours must have been a single stage paint system.



#18 grumpy xu1

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 08:31 PM

Yep, pick a system, stick to it, is what is being said !




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