22 replies to this topic

[champagne_metallic]

Considering buying a HR, Never owned one, but owned several Toranas, a few questions for those who have... what are they like to drive, does a LC/LJ feel more refined or pretty much the same, also what are the 3 speed column manuals like, are they a pig with a built 6, what do they shift like.

 

Cheers

[limo]

Nice car, had a couple. Nothing like a Torana. Body roll, under powered, manual box bit crunchy, 3 on tree can be tricky. Premiere, 4 spd, lsd, 186s and toughen suspension. Nice classic cruiser.

[yel327]

At least the steering wheel and pedals are in the right place on a HR! They are a bit backward steering, suspension, brakes wise etc but any of this can be easily upgraded. You can even buy a whole fabricated front end with power steer.
You are best using a HK-WB all synchro 3spd. HK came standard with the same crash box as HR but it was optional with an all synchro, so it should be easy to adapt - the floors are basically the same and the HK gearbox crossmembers will bolt in, although from memory a HR Powerglide crossmember and tailshaft is the same as an all synchro. Not certain if the HK column shift bits go in or not.
I have a whole driving HK Kingswood sedan donor car stashed at my mate’s place that is an M15 optioned car that I can compare to a crash box setup but I won’t be up there for a fair few months.
If it’s a good car they are a really easy car to convert to a HK V8 driveline.

[71xu1]

LC, LJ much more refined.

[RallyRed]

Back in the mid 70's, did a roadtrip one weekend with a mate. My LC GTR, his 186 HR Special.( green with white roof).
We swapped cars for 1/2 hour...I didnt rate the HR at all.
3 on the tree is just dodgey.
Floated all over the road.
Having said that, it was a more comfy on country roads that the GTR bone jarrer.

To me is was just another example of how much cars get better with each new generation/ model.
Think maybe VX to VF2 type stuff.

[Ice]

Like most old Holdens with shit stock suspension but the early girls had plenty of body roll 

[rodomo]

Too many parts steering versus rack and pinion.

[claysummers]

All synchro boxes have a different shift actuation and won’t work with the original hr column shift. They weigh a couple hundred kilo more than an LC LJ. They came optioned with the same Girling Lockheed solid disc brakes and drive line as LC pretty much but 161 and 186. Opel 4speed was a late option and rare. Less rare the X2 and 186s.

GMH did what they later repeated with the VN. They dropped a larger body on the FE to EH platform. Consequently obscene quantities of rubber can be accommodated under the HD HR guards, one of their major strong points. Injected black motor and trimatic or other straight six is the easy path. V8 conversion is popular, often with LH UC k frame or shell out ten kay for fabricated IFS and Astra or BMW power rack and pinion.


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[Rockoz]

Mate of mine had an ex army wagon. White over khaki.

Had a low compression 161 in it and ran on the smell of an oily rag.

Great fun to drive. I had an LC at the time.

The HR was nowhere near as harsh in the ride as the LC.
In my earlier years another mate had an X2. Heaps of extra performance with headers and 2 crappy strombergs instead of 1 lol

 

Cars like these actually require you to drive them more than play with other crap like electronic centres.

To be honest, if an entertainment unit out of a modern car was fitted to a HR, it would likely end up on a tree with the drivers of today.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[claysummers]

Hey don't knock single strommies rob 8)
X2 strommies better than WW you know it

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[yel327]

I still want to see someone build a HR like a South African one, with a 250ci Chevrolet design straight 6. Or a tall deck 292ci version. With an all synchro 3spd and a 3.08 (with 14 or 15" tyres) or 2.78 rear axle (with 13" tyres) would be a decent car. I'd still fork out the $ for a CRS or similar full new front end for it with steering rack and decent brakes.

 

Clay, here is how you do the all synchro 3spd:

https://www.earlyhol...lumn-shift-kit/

 

I guess that is the price to pay if you wanted to keep it manual. The far easier conversion would be to use a V8 Powerglide behind the Chevy design 6 and then it is easy.

[claysummers]

Yeah holdenman restomotive, he is my idol and no shit. A reco steering box is about $450 plus you get the conversion and collapsible column. Also a higher box ratio if you use standard HKTG box. This can be helpful when running fat front rubber with highway caster.

I still reckon auto though. Banjo will struggle with a manual behind all that torque. And aren’t the chevs drilled for turbo pattern anyway?


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Powerglide only good for the strip innit?


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[yel327]

Only the HT V8 3spd has the close ratio, all the rest from HK through to WB (6cyl or V8) are the standard 3.07:1 1st gear. The beauty of an M15 3spd is reverse is like 1st gear in an M22 aussie 4spd. When you put a tall rear axle with say a normal aussie M20 (3.05:1 1st), reverse is the same ratio. So when you are trying to reverse a load up a driveway with say a 3.08 rear axle they are pigs. However the 3.07:1 3spd has a 3.74:1 reverse.

 

Sort of, all Chevrolet big block, small block and 6cyl from that era are the same Chevrolet pattern engine, so any gearbox fits any block. So you would simply fit a proper V8 Powerglide like a HK-HT 307 one or HT-HG 350 auto box (not a HT 6cyl one with a locally made bellhousing to suit a 253 or 308 which is what was in HT), or a TH350 out of a HZ or WB. The V8 Powerglide connects straight up to HR auto column using the HK crossover linkage, and would also just use a HK V8 Powerglide crossmember and HK-HT V8 Powerglide kickdown linkage. The TH350 you'd have to fiddle a bit with the linkage to fit it to the TH350, and just use a standard TH350 cable kickdown with a HK V8 Powerglide crossmember. The other thing you can do is use a V8 Trimatic and either buy an aftermarket Chev pattern bellhousing or there are GMH made bellhousings to fit Trimatic behind Chevrolet 6's in South African HG-HJ. One of these just uses a HR Powerglide crossmember and you'd have to adapt the column linkage and use a HG Trimatic speedo cable plus fit a kickdown switch for the Trimatic.

 

Although the bigger 6 would be good, in the end (and depending upon your Engineer) you'd be better off with a 267, 283, 302, 305 or 307 SBC. One of these with alloy heads, alloy intake and alloy water pump is far lighter than a straight 6 and sits back further. Plus probably cheaper to buy bits for and rebuild.

[claysummers]

Was talking about the steering box ratio sorry Byron.

Yes better V8 or stick with the VK injected six and trimatic as I said. Dual circuit and vented discs maybe.

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[yel327]

I reckon if you were building one to drive everyday and it needed a disc conversion plus normal front end freshen up (ball joints, tie rods, bushes and steering box overhaul) it’d be hard to go past one of these. With power steering, standard ride height and steering bits $5100. Comes with XF rotors and I think VP calipers. Maybe leave rotors Ford pattern and stick a 2WD Hilux diff under the back that are also 4.5” PCD 5 stud. Plenty of good Ford pattern wheels around.

https://www.rodshop....ol-hd-hr-2.html

Edited by yel327, 28 January 2021 - 07:17 PM.

[claysummers]

Yeah the CRS units don’t have a real good name. Rodtech meant to be good.


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[yel327]

Yes, that is why I bought a Rodtech one and forgot CRS did a HD-HR one. The downside of a Rodtech one is it is a 1” drop stub, whereas the CRS one is standard stub height or if you like ploughing, a 2” drop.
I’ve looked at a HR CRS unit and it looked pretty good, not as as attractive as a Rodtech unit but it is cheaper. Given what you have to fork out today for a buggered old HD-HR disc front to convert a 48/215 to EH, add on the cost of rebuilding it all, for less than $5k you can have a manual rack CRS unit ready to go. Only $250 extra for a power steering rack though and a Holden 6 set of power steering pump brackets and pulley are easy to find off HK though to VK. Pumps are cheap too.

[claysummers]

Still running king pins, worm and sector, crash box and leading trailing drums in my 186 FB. Even though I've got a couple of HR front ends lying around I'm tempted by the fabricated front ends. Would be a bonus if motor can be lowered due to increased clearence to steering. Then floor doesn't need to be cut for larger trans and improved handling as well.

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[71xu1]

Still running king pins, worm and sector, crash box and leading trailing drums in my 186 FB. Even though I've got a couple of HR front ends lying around I'm tempted by the fabricated front ends. Would be a bonus if motor can be lowered due to increased clearence to steering. Then floor doesn't need to be cut for larger trans and improved handling as well.
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You need to talk to Bat53 on this forum

[claysummers]

Albert is on humpy forum prolly more-so I think Dave. Knows his stuff alright.


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[71xu1]

Albert is on humpy forum prolly more-so I think Dave. Knows his stuff alright.
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FB same setup as Humpys.

Edited by 71xu1, 30 January 2021 - 12:55 AM.

[claysummers]

A lot of humpys got fitted with later running gear as it became available back in the day. My dads first car was an FX with FJ running gear. This was in 1955 before the FE came out. I’ve seen them fitted with FE EK suspension and brakes, EJ EH, HR, HQ, LX etc.

FB is closer to HR in the chassis department, practically a bolt in swap. Whereas Humpys require surgery to the crossmember mounts.

Anyway my point is that I am quite happy with the suspension and brakes, which cope with the big block 186 with no trouble. I’m more concerned about the driveline coping.


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