Jump to content


Photo

W.A. state government chasing stamp duty.


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Shiney005

Shiney005

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,993 posts
  • Name:Laurie
  • Location:Dubya Hay
  • Car:Toyota Mirai
  • Joined: 19-January 12
Garage View Garage

Posted 10 March 2021 - 10:18 AM

I briefly brought this up in another thread, but it deserves it own. It appears that all insurance companies have been giving out details about our cars to the Police.

This is from a Street Machine article.

https://www.whichcar...mp_Send_List_5k

 

WE ALL know the drill: Buy a car, get it regoed in your name and pay the stamp duty (usually around three per cent up to 6.5 per cent) on the purchase price. Where it gets a little murky is when you buy an unregistered car, spend a small fortune fixing it up and then have to work out its value when it comes time to register it. The most commonly used guide to determine the value of a vehicle is RedBook, a publication that provides details of cars and individual used historical pricing dating back to 1935.

So imagine the surprise of Chris Bitmead, owner and builder of the Street Machine of the Year-winning XBOSS XB Falcon, when he received an email from the Western Australian Office of State Revenue (OSR) suggesting he might owe as much as $65,000 in stamp duty and associated penalties!

“Back in January 2019, the state government instructed insurance companies to provide information on classic vehicles manufactured prior to 1990 with an insurance value over $20,000,” Chris explains. “What the government has been doing is comparing the insured value to the value that was declared at the time the vehicle was either licensed or changed ownership.”

Where discrepancies have been discovered between the insured and dutiable value, owners have been receiving emails from the OSR asking for an explanation. In the case of XBOSS, at the time the car was registered, Chris applied the highest RedBook value for a 1976 XB Falcon 500 coupe, which was $15,500.

“I went on to explain to the OSR – as the insurance companies had already done – that enthusiast vehicle insurance policies are an agreed value and more a reflection of what it would cost to repair the vehicle more than the actual value of the car,” Chris says. “But the government is hanging its hat on the insurance value.”

That resulted in the OSR revaluing Chris’s car and telling him that he owed them $26,000, and to rub salt into the wound, because he had – according to them – undervalued the car, there was a 30 per cent penalty on top, resulting in a bill of almost $34,000. For a car that Chris had originally paid $8990 for!

But wait, it gets even worse: “Once I got the bill, I had 30 days in which to pay it, even though I was disputing it. If I didn’t pay within 30 days, there would be another 20 per cent on top, taking the total to over $40,000, and I wasn’t prepared to do that.”

Chris paid the bill, but appealed the ruling.

To get a definitive value on the car at the time of licensing, Chris turned to Paul Blank, one of the most highly regarded valuers in the country when it comes to classic cars. “In terms of his credentials as a valuer, no one is more highly qualified, so I wanted to use someone that they couldn’t say: ‘Well, we’ve got someone who is better,’” Chris says. Paul argued that, while XBOSS is a highly recognisable and well-known car with unparalleled success on the show scene, that wasn’t the case when it was first registered and no one had heard of it, so that is how he valued the car.

The appeal took 75 days to be assessed. In the end, Chris managed to get almost $25,000 back. Of course, the actual stamp duty paid is still more than what he paid for the car in the first place!

 

“How I see the story is, these people are making decisions and asking people to fork out a lot of money, and then when they’re wrong, they give a lot of it back with next to no interest,” Chris says. “Instead of assessing it right in the first place, they’re being belligerent about it.”

Just to be clear, we’re not suggesting governments shouldn’t go after people who are intentionally understating the purchase price of vehicles, but that wasn’t the case for Chris or for many other classic car owners who’ve found themselves caught up in a similar situation. And for a lot of those people, it’s just not worth the cost of employing lawyers and such to appeal the OSR’s decision. As a result, the government is having a lot of easy wins.

For those in Western Australia, the WA Street Machine Association is working towards providing some pointers and advice. Go to wasma.org.au.

Attached File  xboss-2.jpg   325.64K   6 downloads


Edited by Shiney005, 10 March 2021 - 10:20 AM.


#2 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 10 March 2021 - 11:10 AM

Attached File  greedy cunts.jpg   8.8K   5 downloads



#3 Redslur

Redslur

    Has been Torana owner

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,531 posts
  • Name:Gerry
  • Location:Canberra
  • Car:HQ GTS Replica 350.
  • Joined: 08-November 05

Posted 10 March 2021 - 11:14 AM

This will potentially cause a huge problem if all states and territories get on board. 



#4 UCSLE

UCSLE

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 702 posts
  • Name:troy
  • Location:perth
  • Car:Goggomobil
  • Joined: 23-June 09

Posted 10 March 2021 - 08:35 PM

i knew there was a catch to this "  Concessions for classics" scam , give with one hand and take 10 times the amount away with the other


Edited by UCSLE, 10 March 2021 - 08:37 PM.


#5 Bernie

Bernie

    Forum Fan

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Location:Base of the Hills Perth WA
  • Car:2 lx Hatches and 3 lx 4 doors
  • Joined: 10-December 07

Posted 10 March 2021 - 11:30 PM

I am in the middle of this atm .

Received a please explain from the revenue dept in WA .Had the Laws attached  with various fines etc to put the shits up you .

I had my car insured for $72 K with Shannons .Got it licensed after having it for 6 yrs .Spent very little on it so any expenditure was very low $500 say. .Battery, Fuel cleaner ,carb kit yudda yudda .Classed that as general costs .
Go to a car show and see the Shannons crew and get asked the question as to how much my car is insured for ?.Told them $72 K .

They said "is that enough ."What do you think its worth ?" I dunno .
"Well if you found it burnt out on the side of the rd what would it cost to get your pride and joy back on the rd ?"  Their spiel .

"$120K I reckon ".

."We will insure it for that" they said 

So I increase my insurance by $48k and pay the premium 

3 years 3 months later I get this Email .
Your car  market value placed on your license application was considerably lower than the $120k it was insured for when you licensed it in oct 2017 .Please explain ?

Paid $110 for historic redbook value and sent that in .They arent happy with that so I took 85 mb of photos and sent it to them .Had comparitive photos of a very Tidy matching numbers unrestored A9X  sold for $125 k in march of 2017 . Outlined my reasons for the value I put as Market value in Oct 2017.

They asked me to resubmit the form with re assed  market value of the vehicle in 2017 .

I kept it the same value and gave my reasons why.

Received a notification that they will get back to me in 2 weeks time .

I guess there is an election on 

 

Will keep you posted 

 

 

 

 

 


 



#6 Shiney005

Shiney005

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,993 posts
  • Name:Laurie
  • Location:Dubya Hay
  • Car:Toyota Mirai
  • Joined: 19-January 12
Garage View Garage

Posted 11 March 2021 - 07:16 AM

The thing that shits me the most in all this is the fact that an insurance company (who is "For the motoring enthusiast"), would give clients details to the state revenue dept.

Is it just them or have all insurance mobs done this?

What was the Redbook value of your car in 2012 Bernie?



#7 RallyRed

RallyRed

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,805 posts
  • Name:Col
  • Location:NSW
  • Car:LC GTR etc
  • Joined: 02-October 11

Posted 11 March 2021 - 07:17 AM

hmmm...does this all mean they will refund any stamp duty paid by owners, who do not have insurance?  i.e. "no" insurance value ?

 

I can see they are chasing blatant rorters of the system....and must have some legal type advice, but the original purchase price vs. current insured value is a tenuous link imho.

 

Could the same be applied to House purchase price vs. current insured value?

 

The problem is that "their" systems do not have a way of accurately capturing the actual purchase price of the car, unlike houses. They want you to fix it for them.



#8 neglectedtorana

neglectedtorana

    Forum Fixture

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts
  • Name:Tom
  • Location:Central Coast
  • Car:LX Torana Sunbird
  • Joined: 06-March 12

Posted 11 March 2021 - 07:35 AM

When I registered my car I had to have proof of ownership which I had in the original purchase receipt from 18 years earlier for $1500.

 

The clerk at RMS used that as the value and I questioned him and said it would be worth more now. He told me he would be using the figure on the receipt as that was all he needed, his decision. Shannons have looked at my car at car shows and upped the value. Like any restored car if it was stolen and trashed it would cost $100,000 to get it back to normal but my insurance agreed value is a lot less than that.

 

Its unfortunate the governments in this country continually rape the little guys through taxes etc.



#9 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 11 March 2021 - 08:30 AM

Insurable value should not even come into the equation.

I believe here in QLD the transport dept bases the stamp duty payable on the purchase price or the market value, whichever is the greater.
 



#10 claysummers

claysummers

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,273 posts
  • Name:Clay
  • Location:Willunga
  • Car:186 FB Ute, 3.3 EK sedan
  • Joined: 13-December 18

Posted 11 March 2021 - 09:17 AM

Same in SA. But I think they are saying that insured value reflects market value. You can't win with those pricks.

early Holden nut

#11 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 11 March 2021 - 09:27 AM

These greedy WA pricks need to stick to what the vehicle was worth at the time of sale or when initially registered, not what it is worth 3 years later.


Edited by S pack, 11 March 2021 - 09:28 AM.


#12 Shiney005

Shiney005

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,993 posts
  • Name:Laurie
  • Location:Dubya Hay
  • Car:Toyota Mirai
  • Joined: 19-January 12
Garage View Garage

Posted 11 March 2021 - 09:35 AM

These greedy WA pricks need to stick to what the vehicle was worth at the time of sale or when initially registered, not what it is worth 3 years later.

My sister in law just bought a brand new Chinese made Saic SUV. Maybe she should be paying the stamp duty on what that will be worth in three years time.



#13 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 11 March 2021 - 09:50 AM

My sister in law just bought a brand new Chinese made Saic SUV. Maybe she should be paying the stamp duty on what that will be worth in three years time.

Haha, the moment she drove it out of the dealership it dropped about 30% in value.
 



#14 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 11 March 2021 - 10:12 AM

not what it is worth 3 years later.

I should have said 'not what it is insured for 3 years later.'

#15 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,102 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:22 PM

So a car that i paid $2500 own and once was registered now been unlicensed for 30 years

i go spend 50 K on it prob be worth a lot more when finished and  what now i have to pay stamp duty on that 

Am reading  this right ? 

Please correct me if I’m wrong 



To get registered again   



#16 lx308

lx308

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,835 posts
  • Name:Tony
  • Location:Australind
  • Car:2005 CV8 Monaro
  • Joined: 25-March 07

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:22 PM

Sounds like that's what's been happening Gene

#17 S pack

S pack

    Scrivet Counter

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,522 posts
  • Name:Dave
  • Location:Luggage Point
  • Car:73 LJ
  • Joined: 25-January 10

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:28 PM

So a car that i paid $2500 own and once was registered now been unlicensed for 30 years

i go spend 50 K on it prob be worth a lot more when finished and  what now i have to pay stamp duty on that 

Am reading  this right ? 

Please correct me if I’m wrong 



To get registered again   

Surely if you can prove you have owned the car for 30+ years and it has previously been registered in your name then I cannot see why you would be liable for any further stamp duty when it comes time to register it after a restoration.
 


Edited by S pack, 11 March 2021 - 05:29 PM.


#18 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,102 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:35 PM

Surely if you can prove you have owned the car for 30+ years and it has previously been registered in your name then I cannot see why you would be liable for any further stamp duty when it comes time to register it after a restoration.
 

They should have previous registration on file you would think   



#19 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,009 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:44 PM

The problem happens when you buy a car in the 90’s and fix it over decades or when life permits.

#20 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,102 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:56 PM

The problem happens when you buy a car in the 90’s and fix it over decades or when life permits.

Built it in 2 years in 1990  back then had plenty of spare cash on tap 

But unlicensed since 1994 

Like Dave said i didn’t buy it recently and was regoed  so i should not be up for stamp duty at all   



#21 claysummers

claysummers

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,273 posts
  • Name:Clay
  • Location:Willunga
  • Car:186 FB Ute, 3.3 EK sedan
  • Joined: 13-December 18

Posted 11 March 2021 - 05:57 PM

Stamp duty is paid on transfer of registration. It should be the value when transferred to your name. In SA they ask for the plates back when it has been unregistered for a few years, but I just ignore the request. When you renew there is a small admin fee, no transfer or stamp duty.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

#22 yel327

yel327

    Oh My, Don't you post alot

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,009 posts
  • Joined: 10-February 08

Posted 11 March 2021 - 06:01 PM

I bought my yellow GTS327 in 1993, when regoed will be subject to stamp duty. Same with my V8 GTS. Had both a long time.

#23 sibhs

sibhs

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,699 posts
  • Name:Martin
  • Location:Perth
  • Car:LJ Coupe S
  • Joined: 27-July 12

Posted 11 March 2021 - 06:33 PM

So a car that i paid $2500 own and once was registered now been unlicensed for 30 years

i go spend 50 K on it prob be worth a lot more when finished and  what now i have to pay stamp duty on that 

Am reading  this right ? 

Please correct me if I’m wrong 



To get registered again   

You should be ok Gene as long as you can prove you owned it then and it hasn't changed hands.

You're not transferring ownership just renewing your car licence, so no transfer fee.

 

Marty



#24 sibhs

sibhs

    Lotsa Posts!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,699 posts
  • Name:Martin
  • Location:Perth
  • Car:LJ Coupe S
  • Joined: 27-July 12

Posted 11 March 2021 - 06:43 PM

They take the highest value. - What you paid for it OR what's the maximum you could sell it for on the day of licensing.

 

THE PROBLEM IS - know one knows for sure what's the maximum you can sell any vehicle for on that given day. Best bet is to get it licensed in the middle of a GFC or when Covid hit and mention no one will buy due to global uncertainty.

 

Using insurance values is not a true representation of what a vehicle will sell for - THAT IS THE OTHER PROBLEM!  How many cars have you owned that you wish it was stolen and destroyed so you got the insurance pay-out?  Cars can be over insured for sure!

 

I think this will help Historic licensed clubs get more members, Sallys car will go straight on club rego so no transfer fee applies. It is only paid when someone gets a full licence on this vehicle.

 

Marty


Edited by sibhs, 11 March 2021 - 06:45 PM.


#25 Ice

Ice

    Cool

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,102 posts
  • Name:Gene
  • Location:Galaxy's away from Ipswich
  • Car:77 HZ Sandman Van
  • Joined: 03-January 07

Posted 11 March 2021 - 07:00 PM

You should be ok Gene as long as you can prove you owned it then and it hasn't changed hands.

You're not transferring ownership just renewing your car licence, so no transfer fee.

 

Marty

Phew thats what i thought 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users