58 replies to this topic

[Claude]

Hi guys, I’ve read through some of the brake forums but could not find an exact answer.

My car is an LX hatch with standard front end it has UC callipers on standard sized rotors with Torana stud pattern & 15” Simmons 3 piece rims. 225 rubber. Back is standard drums.
Since I had my engine rebuilt I find that I get that horrible feeling if I brake at speed am I going to stop in time without lock and slide. (I do always try to leave space) I would like to upgrade my front brakes keeping all the above mentioned. 

so if anyone has used the Wilwood Torana set up 12.19” (just over 300mm rotors) with 15” 3 piece Simmons does it simply bolt straight on with their bracket (pictured) without fouling the rims or hitting anything? Pics would be great. I’m asking because they say yes, but I know the Hopperstopper kit (290mm rotors) doesn’t quite work with the 15” Simmons (it might with some spacers & stuffing around. Which I don’t want to do). 

Or is there a kit that will bolt straight on and give better braking performance? 
Any advice greatly appreciated as it’s not a cheap change over & I don’t want to stuff around would hate to hit the brakes and not stop because something fouled.  
 

Attached Files

•  B1D540C0-2E54-4123-A7DF-2A4BF8A9026C.png   627.96K   19 downloads

[dron]

Hi    

   I ended up with a upc (280mm i think) kit on my UC inspite of some reviews. It is advertised as fitting 14" wheels (Some may fit) my 15" steel wheels fit easy and it stops my UC with a 355 in it well. Better than My 1st attempt using a CRS kit http://www.gmh-toran...ake-kit-for-uc/ for what I worked out and http://www.gmh-toran...ect-begins/     for the origonal build

 

Darren

[yel327]

15” Simmons hit the calipers on my HK with AUII rotors and calipers. They are 287mm which is what Hoppers use I believe. The nuts at the back of the rims hit the calipers. Different calipers might clear. I got some 8mm hubcentric spacers made up so I can run those wheels when I want.

Edited by yel327, 07 May 2021 - 06:57 PM.

[rexy]

Your problem is the Simmons. How attached are you to them?

[dattoman]

Claude

If I was you I'd do one of 2 things

 

Find someone local with the kit and fit your wheels

or

Get someone with a kit to do you a template like the hoppers one... and test fit it in your wheels

Similar to this... but obviously to suit the brakes you want... then cut it out of cardboard or hard plastic... and test fit it inside your wheels

 

Thickness of the hub center and backspacing will be the key here

 

 template.jpg   63.94K   17 downloads

[Claude]

Love the Simmons had them for years want to keep them

[Claude]

Thanks, the Hopper guys were good they said I'd need a 5mm spacer. sent me this, But ideally the kit won't work with Simmons.

Would take the car to them but I'm in Sydney

Anybody know someone who does this in Sydney?

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•  290mm 502 KIT PROFILE.jpg   79.65K   16 downloads

[yel327]

Identical to mine. 8mm spacer gives me 2mm clearance. 5mm would see bolt/nuts touching the calipers.

[neglectedtorana]

CRS also sell a Wilwood kit and I think they have a similar drawing/template as a pic in their brake kit pages on their site

[Claude]

Been told to speak with Mark from MD Conversions at Blacktown. He has good write ups anyone here used him?

Edited by Claude, 08 May 2021 - 10:51 AM.

[neglectedtorana]

Saw a set of Baer on a Kingswood ute at Rare Spares recently, he also does Torana etc

 

https://www.candmengineering.com.au

[Claude]

Great thanks I’ve sent them an email too. 

[rexy]

Well they managed to get SB fords registered in escorts back in the day so sorting out some brakes should be a snack.

[Claude]

Hi Claude, 

 

Yes we do a SS4 & SS4+ kit that should clear the 15" Simmon.  The SS4 uses HQ rotors, the SS4+ 11" Baer 2-piece rotors.  The location of the bolts in relation to the mounting face is what makes them problematic.  If you put a straight edge on the wheel mounting face, you want the bolts to be level  or away from the edge.  If they hit, then you will probably have issues.  

 

The kits do require you to switch spindles from left to right in order to mount the caliper on the rear side of the spindle as the baer caliper won't fit in the stock location.  

 

With 5x4.25" stud pattern the HQ kits are $1,800 incl GST and the SS4+ kits $2,500 incl GST. We make them to order so will be a couple months as we're experiencing a very busy period.  

Regards, 

 

Charbel Sleiman

 

Edited by dattoman, 09 May 2021 - 01:28 PM.

[davelh]

Glad you heard from them - I am interested as well so flicked them an email.

I am in the same boat - the Hoppers kit will hit the bolts holding my wheels together so that is out.

[davelh]

And it looks like these won't work either, my bolts are higher than the mounting face.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[rexy]

“If they hit, then you will probably have issues.“

Understatement of the year.

[Claude]

I thought the same. Looks like Wilwood kit but with the 280mm rotors is possibly the only option, their calliper is apparently flatter 4 piston. Supposed to fit in a 14” rim. My 1st posts shows one that is just over 300mm.

but the guys I spoke to in Melb. Say they can do the smaller rotor set up with Torana stud pattern & a bracket to mount it.. 

just trying find someone who has done it I’m calling MD conversions tomorrow apparently Mark will know. 

Edited by Claude, 09 May 2021 - 05:56 PM.

[dattoman]

Did you take a wheel off and do any measurements

Or just hoping they give you can answer you like ?

Be nice to see a pic of the inside of these wheels

[yel327]

I found some original 15” Pontiac Rallye rims fit, but some scrape the AUII calipers. Aftermarket ones that I tried scrubbed the calipers. As I said the 15” Simmons didn’t work either. In the end I came to the conclusion that only a select few 15” would fit without spacers, or I’d have to use 16”, which I refuse to do on a HK coupe as they look ridiculous in my eyes.

[davelh]

These are mine. Very similar to Simmons in the way they bolt together, meaning they have the same problems. I measured multiple times for the hoppers kits and they didn't fit. Sounds like these won't fit either.
May just have to stick with HQ and the machined down discs!

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[dattoman]

These are mine. Very similar to Simmons in the way they bolt together, meaning they have the same problems. I measured multiple times for the hoppers kits and they didn't fit. Sounds like these won't fit either.
May just have to stick with HQ and the machined down discs!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

+

Great pic Dave

Tells the story

I have seen wheels with thicker hub bosses and different offsets...no chance with those though

[Oversteer]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the very sub-par performance of those willwood brakes ! 

 

Major issues are ;

 

rotor is way too thin.

rotor to hub mounting is non hub centric...literally hang off sloppy bolts, impossible to get dead true.

calipers are light and weak, major flex issues.

very small pad.

 

All this adds up to poor performance worst of which is bad fade.

 

Don't buy them if you want good brake performance ! they are for looks and lightness eg drag car that relies on chute...and they cheap!

[Claude]

• Yes the issue is the Rims ( as mentioned above by Rexy ) Simmons have the same style joint. Just wanted to know if someone had used the Wilwood kit and got away with it straight out bolt on clearance ok . So I did just want to someone to tell me. I’ve already looked and measured spoken to people about most other kits same issues as others have mentioned here. 

[Claude]

Thanks Oversteer I’ve heard some negative stuff I’ll do some more research as I’ve also heard positive stuff
Maybe that’s why no one has used them here