58 replies to this topic

[Claude]

I spoke with Mark from MD Conversions he seems like the man.  He has 3 kits that he custom builds to fit your rim and set up. So you take the rim in first.  They range from $2k - $3k. Fitting, engineering test certification is additional- you could take the kit and install it yourself if you wanted. He uses Wilwood gear and swears by it really put my mind at ease about it. He seemed like a bit of a master at his game very knowledgeable dude. Told me to write any questions down so he could answer them when I came in. 
I won’t be able to get there for a couple wks but I’ll keep you posted. 

[neglectedtorana]

I have Wilwood calipers and am happy with them, my use of Wilwood was a choice to fit the rim I wanted. The smaller Wilwood caliper was the only way I could make it work. Before I took my car for my brake test the engineer said he did a test on a HQ with Wilwoods and he was scared it wouldn't stop at all.

 

When he tested my car he was pleasantly surprised at how well the car stopped. Part of the test involved accelerating to 80km/h and then stopping as quick as possible 12 times to warm the brakes then doing it with the deceleration meter thing 6 times, certainly was not a fun experience for me to be in the car but it braked well. The engineer thought it must have been to do with the pad compound as it seemed to get better the hotter they got and was much better than he expected

 

I used a Commodore disc and had McDonald Brothers make me a caliper adapter. They also have a kit that fits HQ so maybe they have one or Torana.

 

From the disc face toward the wheel the caliper is only 44mm, I haven't measured other calipers but I think that is small. I tried a UPC kit, similar to Hoppers but it wouldn't fit with my wheels.

 

Hope you get something suitable

[Claude]

Thanks Tom good to hear from someone that has used the product 

Edited by Claude, 12 May 2021 - 04:14 PM.

[Oversteer]

Willwoods kits are better than standard torana or even hq brakes ....but that's not hard.

 

To call them a performance brake is a stretch, even though they do do some uber expansive calipers which are probably alright, but at the same price range as ap, brembo, alcon etc, which willwoods aren't in the same league what so ever.

 

If you just want to cruise(eg drive very responsibly) and or don't have 400+hp they may be fine for you.

 

Drive hard, brake late or any racing, not for me, i have made the mistake of buying the exact willwod kit you linked for my 500hp LH...didn't say on car long, replaced with early 90's subaru 1170 4 pots which were infinitely better.

[axistr]

I've been making a few kits lately. I haven't  advertised them much because I am still seeing how many variations I have to cater for. I drill the hubs and rotors to any stub pattern and have all been custom made, Torana, commodore, HQ. 287mm & 298 mm kits.

 

I don't know why so many kits suppliers recommend swapping the stubs for left to right. By putting the calipers behind the axle I have found there are more clearance issues. Both my Toranas have 17" Simmons so haven't had the opportunity to check 15" Simmons (3 piece). I believe my kit has a bit more wheel clearance from the caliper over other kits. From the wheel bolt face the caliper sits approximately 12mm inboard with new pads. I have to make longer caliper spacers over other kits to get it to work with Torana stubs. I haven't had the opportunity to do HQ stubs on a Torana yet due to customers all having Torana stubs which I reckon are a better choice for street driven vehicles.

 

The photos below are 287mm kit with 15" rims.

 

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[claysummers]

They look the goods axistr.


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[davelh]

Any chance you could measure from the wheel mounting face to the front of the caliper to see if it will clear those pesky studs?

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[axistr]

Any chance you could measure from the wheel mounting face to the front of the caliper to see if it will clear those pesky studs?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

Dave, measuring from the centre of the stub axle to 153 mm (306 overall) I have 14mm clearance. See attached photo. At 160mm (320mm overall rim size) I get 16 mm and almost completely clears the outer section of the caliper . At 162mm it clears the caliper before the caliper has a step inboard around 50mm further in.

 

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Edited by axistr, 13 May 2021 - 05:00 PM.

[davelh]

Cheers, what is the measurement at say 145?
This is how tight it is lol

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[axistr]

Dave that's a very small bolt circle for the rims, 11.5"  The measurement I get at 145mm is 4.5mm clearance inboard of the wheel bolt face.

 

Cheers Lenny. 

[neglectedtorana]

I have seen/read lots of comments about Wilwoods and am curious gone speakers some sort of comparison, if I can get my wheels to fit my UPC kit I will try it

Might require some spacer and longer studs
The small Wilwood calipers do allow for weird wheels

[Claude]

Axistra great pics how much is a the full kit and the installation costs if you did that? 

[Claude]

Thanks for the info Oversteer that’s the sort of stuff I was hoping to hear from someone who’s had the experience.

my car is around 300hp at the wheels, I just cruise so I think they will be adequate and fit in the rims was hoping to go see MD in a couple of wks. Saving $ expensive exercise.  

[axistr]

G'day Claude,

 

So far every kit has been custom made, I have done kits for Toranas in Torana, Commodore and HQ stud patterns. These kits have been built in 298mm and 287mm brake kits. I make the caliper mounts to suit the owners stub axles to ensure the calipers are perfectly centered over the rotor. I can understand why so many owners have problems fitting aftermarket brake upgrade kit due to so many variations in Holdens machining of the original stub axles, many people having to grind parts to get them to fit. All my brake kits have the brake calipers mounted on the front of the stub axles. I don't like seeing them to the rear, mounting on the rear of the stubs just causes issues generally contacting the K-frame and or sway bar links. Its common to see the caliper piston compressed on full lock causing a extremely low brake pedal on the next brake application if not pumped up first. (very dangerous). 

 

To give you some idea of cost, the above kits in the photos are 287mm kits and optioned with SS braided brake hoses, slotted and dimpled rotors, works out around $1,600.00 I have built 298mm kit with standard rotors $1,475.00

 

I sold my workshop ten years ago and no longer have a licenced workshop to fit my brake or power steering kits. However your in Sydney and I'm north west Sydney (near Windsor). If you bring me you stub axles and a wheel I can make a kit for you ready to be installed. I can also put you in touch with a few fellow mechanics who can fit the kit for you if that helps. 

 

Cheers Lenny. 

[neglectedtorana]

Hi Lenny,

 

Kit looks good, are you using the AU rotor for the 287mm?

What rotor do you use for the 298mm?

 

I would be interested to bring you a wheel one day and see if it will fit, the Walkinshaw wheels I have don't fit with the UPC kit (using AU rotor) that is why I have a Wilwood caliper, the inside of the wheel has webbing on the back of the spokes that hits the bolt up face and caliper on the AU rotor which has a larger diameter bolt up face than a VZ type disc

 

Cheers, Tom

[axistr]

Tom, AU series 3 for 287mm & BF 298mm. Not 100% sure what the other guys are doing but I have to make longer caliper spacers than them to get the caliper centered over the rotor. The caliper looks to be mounted inboard 3-4mm further with my kit. Not a massive difference but might be all you need to clear. See photos of the measurements earlier in the posts. 

 

Cheers Lenny.  

[Claude]

Hi Lenny what sort of calliper is that you’re using? 

[axistr]

Hi Lenny what sort of calliper is that you’re using? 

 

PBR. 

[Claude]

I’ve committed to seeing Mark, but if things don’t work out I’ll definitely chase you up Lenny, your work and knowledge is quality.

Your post will be helpful to many as well. 

[Claude]

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the troublesome bolts on the rims, been told that these are really 14” made to 15” 

 

[Claude]

Update on the disc sets built by Mark from MD Conversions. Unfortunately COVID has held things up for months now. He did build the front set pretty much custom even machined the hubs to suit Torana stud pattern. Now has the rears ready but I’m unable to get the car in to have them fitted as he’s in Blacktown “LGA of concern” so close but so far away. 
on a positive note it’s given me time to get $$ together, unfortunately now my work has been pretty much shut down by government for around 3 months. 

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[Claude]

Brake pros & cons 

It’s taken a while to get around to write this summary of my traumatic experience with the brake swap.  I can start with, it wasn’t what I thought it would be and the cost blew out unbelievably. It also took over a year from start to street legal. 

I hope this info saves people some grief and helps make decisions when choosing options. 

Firstly I would not choose the option I did for the sake of keeping my rims and Torana stud pattern, I would also not use the person who built the Wilwood kits and installed them. (If you want to know why PM. me.) 

The easiest option would be HQ set up, (possibly Commodore) next would be a pre-made kit like Hopper Stoppers. Even custom kits built and mentioned in the forums here using PBR Oz recognised parts. (Like Lenny) Avoid the cowboys! Would also help a lot if you are able do some of the work yourself.  

Where I’m totally happy with the Wilwoods now they have been passed and legal, they are not an Australian Standard product and a full swap is regarded as a major change that needs full engineering certification to be street & insurance legal. The certification will cost around $2500. and needs a private road all condition brake test. If you fail it costs you each time it has to go back.  It’s not the engineers fault it’s just the requirements. There are only a few guys in Sydney that do this, as it’s a pain. 

Be prepared with Wilwood’s to have mis match issues with the master cylinder the standard Holden V8 doesn’t pass requirements. I ended up trying several and finally settled on Chev. C4 truck one. Also had issues with proportion between front and back and had to install a manual valve- (Thanks to Steve & Burt Brothers Fairfield. Can’t speak highly enough of these guys,  like an encyclopaedia and always helped me out after being left high and dry) 

Also needed to have the brake booster rebuilt all hoses and some lines had to be replaced. 

I have a Ford 9” & Supra 5 speed which was certified over 25years ago this however was not on my Rego Cert. (Back in the day the engineer came to you and mailed the paper work you then took it in to the RTA. and the car went over the RTA pits to pass) Can’t find the original papers & don’t know why it wasn’t on the rego Cert. So I basically had to get them re certified as well. More cost as I had to change the axles with name brands and install big bearings for the 15” rims. (Thanks to Con at Diff Technics Kogarah).

There was also a lot of minor issues wth hose & calliper clearance that should have been sorted at the install but weren’t. 

The Engineer I used was good guy - but by the book. Rob - VCM. Engineering. He does the full brake testing. 

The brakes look & work great, heaps better than the original standard set up but I don’t believe it was worth the dramas or the expense. I thought I did enough research and was prepared expense wise but fell short in both. 

Hope this helps someone. Will post some pics soon.

[RallyRed]

Good summary mate..thanks.  Should help a few out who may be considering similar.