13 replies to this topic

[TOERUNNER]

Hi guys , i am in the process of doing the body repairs on my lj gtr, i have used Debeer epoxy, smoothed it all out and debeer epoxy again, i am now ready to spray  debeer hs surfacer , my question is how long can i leave the surfacer  once rubbed back before i topcoat. Someone told me i had to topcoat within 3 days of spraying the surfacer but that is not possible for me.

[Statler]

Which epoxy are you using ? 

Is it the 2K HS ? 

 

You definately do not want to be leaving that any longer than necessary because it will suck up atmosphere moisture & you will get bubbling down the track. 

[TOERUNNER]

Yeah it’s Debeer 2k polyurethane hs surfacer

[71xu1]

What does the TDS say, I used the metacryl hs all it says re scuff if not painted within 6 to 8 hrs.

[TOERUNNER]

What does the TDS say, I used the metacryl hs all it says re scuff if not painted within 6 to 8 hrs.

I can't find anything in the TDS, but i would have thought a quick scuff and away you go.

[grumpy xu1]

Are you asking how long can you leave the hi build on the car before you top coat it, or how long after you have blocked it down till you can't just apply the paint without more prep ?

You should be able to leave the hi build on the car for months before you block it if you wish, as for 1, you're not near the coast & obviously you would be storing it under cover ect.

As for spraying the colour over the "blocked" hi build, i would definitely be giving it a good scuff before you get it in the booth ect. & Obviously a good wax & grease. Make sure that you have spot primed any rub throughs aswell though.

[71xu1]

Im in the same vote can't paint in short time frames so my process, all wet is 400, 600 then the day I'm painting 800. I seem to be able then get whatever is prepped painted on the day.

[Rockoz]

I may be wrong, however the info I have found on 2 pack etch primers and primer surfacers, including high build types, is that as they are an epoxy they are resistant to moisture ingress.

 

I have painted a car that I intend restoring in both 2 pack and single pack etch primers.

In different areas of course.

 

The car unfortunately has spent most of its time in my hands outside in direct weather.

 

The areas with the 2 pack etch show very little in the way of rust coming through, or any blistering or bubbling.

A couple of area have a little bit of rust coming through, but they are in spots where I didnt achieve a good cover.

 

The areas that were done in single pack etch primer are showing extensive areas of rust coming through.

 

All areas were initially treated the same with phosphoric based rust convertor before the etch was applied.

 

Back in the days of Dulon painting, the primers were very susceptible to moisture ingress.

I learned that the hard way back in the day.

 

But so far, with what I have observed, the 2 pack stuff survives very well in regards to moisture problems.

 

Cheers

 

Rob 

[claysummers]

My paint guru told me that they actually use the Epotec 408 epoxy 2k etch to paint inside swimming pools, so I agree with Rob. That is why it is recommended to seal up projects after dipping and or blasting. Then you can take your time without worrying too much about any corrosion due to primer porosity.


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[grumpy xu1]

To say it in the most basic description, using epoxy is like zinc plating the surface & it is a zinc phosphate i think it's called, now single pack etch has a smidgen of it in the tin & the basic counter jockey reads that & will bullshit on about they're pretty much the same. Well they're definitely not ! Sikkens where pretty much the first 1's to create the best epoxy years ago, but most are pretty good now. The only thing i would use single pack etch for is guide coat & covering sheet steel until you cut it & do what you need to do with it & then strip it & epoxy etch it in place. It's the first defence in the paint system & very important.

[grumpy xu1]

Im in the same vote can't paint in short time frames so my process, all wet is 400, 600 then the day I'm painting 800. I seem to be able then get whatever is prepped painted on the day.

Yeah you do that. Once it's dry completely after blocking it, i would probably cover the vehicle in flannelette sheets ect, mainly to keep the surface cleaner, therefore giving you less work. I always 800, usually twice to be honest. But surface finish is very important to me. Scratch marks are the enemy.

Sorry, i meant to say yes, you can do that.

[grumpy xu1]

I may be wrong, however the info I have found on 2 pack etch primers and primer surfacers, including high build types, is that as they are an epoxy they are resistant to moisture ingress.
 
I have painted a car that I intend restoring in both 2 pack and single pack etch primers.
In different areas of course.
 
The car unfortunately has spent most of its time in my hands outside in direct weather.
 
The areas with the 2 pack etch show very little in the way of rust coming through, or any blistering or bubbling.
A couple of area have a little bit of rust coming through, but they are in spots where I didnt achieve a good cover.
 
The areas that were done in single pack etch primer are showing extensive areas of rust coming through.
 
All areas were initially treated the same with phosphoric based rust convertor before the etch was applied.
 
Back in the days of Dulon painting, the primers were very susceptible to moisture ingress.
I learned that the hard way back in the day.
 
But so far, with what I have observed, the 2 pack stuff survives very well in regards to moisture problems.
 
Cheers
 
Rob 

Obviously you will need to remove the epoxy & single pack & re do the repairs & re epoxy it all again Rob, i realise that you would understand that, i just want other's to see that's what's needed aswell. You could never know what could be happening under it. Would have been much easier if it was stored in a shed. I would recommend that you use epoxy on it all next time. It's a good base underneath acrylic top coats if that's what you are going to use. All 2 pack to me is the go though. Lot's of advantages i think.

[TOERUNNER]

Thanks for the help guys.

[grumpy xu1]

All good mate.