23 replies to this topic

[davelh]

Hi Guys,

 

Slowly racking up some k's and have hit a bit of a hurdle.

Pulled up at my parents house and noticed the back left wheel smoking and a pool of oil had formed.

Obviously the seal had gone so went straight home and pulled the axle.

First thing I noticed was this:

https://youtu.be/0i5PdHsYUiU

When I pulled the axle, the rear of the bearing had come off.

The race in the tube looks good - just a minor witness mark, I assume from the axle bouncing around.

There is a bit of history in this - when I originally put the diff (9 inch with torana drum ends) in the car, I had no problems getting the drivers side, but the passenger side was a real pain.

The first time I put the axle in, there was a heap of end float. Assuming a crap bearing I pressed a new one on and it sat good. It did take a fair amount of persuasion to get it in though. The bearing was pressed on as it should be - right up to the shoulder it should sit against.

Then after 50 odd km's this happened.

It is obviously operator error when I installed it, but I clearly want to get it right next time. I have pulled and replaced a few axles over the years and never had this problem before.

Any ideas on where I have gone wrong and how I can avoid it next time?

 

Cheers

Dave

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[RallyRed]

Geez, that video shows it!.

Without a bearing on the axle, can you slide the axle into the diff centre easily?

When you get a new bearing, maybe trial fit it in the housing, at least part way, before removing it and fitting it to the axle?

i.e. if you had to persuade the axle into the car, is it tight in the spline? or the housing?

 

Have had a few where the splines are sort of "toothed" due to the torque applied, and they are buggers to get  in/ out.  

The axle spline and the diff spline are no longer a good mesh/fit.

A couple of minutes on the axle spline with some emery or a baby file can help.

If you take a pic of the spline with you phone, and expand the pic to max, you can sometimes see the top part of each spline is sort of keyed/laying over a bit. 

 

All that assumes it is a simple thing, and not something like a bent rear assembly that is "tweaking" the bearing...but you'd think it would take more than 50ks to wreck a new bearing?.

 

p.s. might just be the pic...but that rear housing looks pretty dry inside?

Edited by RallyRed, 27 February 2022 - 03:32 PM.

[davelh]

I don't have the axle here now, but last time I remember putting the axle in like you said with no issue. The splines look nice and straight with no shiny bits so I am leading towards it being something to do with the bearing install, I just don't know what! The inly thing I can think is the race is working its way in too far and detaching from the bearing, but I just can't get me head around it!

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[dron]

I would check the axle lenght, If it is a little long the retainer will bend, Excessive force will be pushing on the seal/ bearing. The seal cage looks to have collapsed in your photo, The retaining plate clamps the seal agenst the bearing and holds the lot in place. The rollers, cage and cup look OK in the photos.  Is the bearing is still home on the axle?

 

         Another possability If ti's not, Is the axle undersize. I have a billet 31 spline axle here that the bearing would not stay on (Keept pulling out of the bearing) Locktite retaining compound would not even hold it. New axle fixed that one, It was only 1/2 thow under size but that was all it took.

[davelh]

The axle is the correct length. I measured it all up yesterday because I was concerned that maybe I had put the axles in the wrong way round. The retaining plate is still straight- it was all definitely home and sitting flush.
The bearing is still sitting home on the axle and won't be moving without a press.
Another thought is that I have caught the back of the bearing in the seal when I put it in?

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[RallyRed]

Could be the dumb comment of the day....but here I go......your bearing looks like a roller type. Is that normal for a rear wheel bearing?.
I didnt think straight rollers were used where any side thrust was possible?.
I thought the correct type was a ball or even double ball?.
Like I said...may be dumb.

[davelh]

Hi Rally, it is a tapered roller, same as factory on the LH.

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[dattoman]

What bearing kit (part # and brand) are you using ?

[Bigfella237]

Hi Rally, it is a tapered roller, same as factory on the LH.

Um, you can't have a tapered roller bearing on a semi-floating rear axle, there's nothing for it to thrust against!

 

Front hubs have tapered roller bearings because there's two of them, an inner and an outer pushing against each other.

 

Full floating rear axles have tapered bearings because there's an inner and an outer bearing pushing against each other.

 

You have nothing but the retaining plate for the bearing to push against, I am actually amazed it lasted 50kms!

 

The factory rear axle bearings were caged ball bearings...

 

 LX Rear Axle Assembly.JPG   83.15K   9 downloads

[davelh]

They are caged, but still a taper bearing. Same as factory.
https://www.kingswoo...lh-l/kPWK2769-f

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[davelh]

What bearing kit (part # and brand) are you using ?

Got them from resto country because I was ordering other gear at the same time.
https://www.kingswoo...lh-l/kPWK2769-f
Thinking I will try and get timken or similar locally this time.

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[davelh]

Um, you can't have a tapered roller bearing on a semi-floating rear axle, there's nothing for it to thrust against!

Front hubs have tapered roller bearings because there's two of them, an inner and an outer pushing against each other.

Full floating rear axles have tapered bearings because there's an inner and an outer bearing pushing against each other.

You have nothing but the retaining plate for the bearing to push against, I am actually amazed it lasted 50kms!

The factory rear axle bearings were caged ball bearings...

LX Rear Axle Assembly.JPG

This pic is direct from the Holden LH service manual. You can see it is a roller, not a ball bearing.

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[rexy]

Is the centre LSD?

[davelh]

Is the centre LSD?

Locker

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[S pack]

Would it be fair to say the oil seal looks like it has been mauled?

[Rockoz]

I would be checking that the seal is actually the correct one.

There are a few different seals from memory, even though the bearings were common on a lot of models.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[davelh]

Cheers Rob. I would say the oil seal is the right one as it came in a kit and has sealed up fine on the other side. I won't rule it out though and am getting a different brand kit. I'll be honest, the seal damage (outer only) is probably me!
I still don't understand the float on the axle, I just can't see how it can happen.

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[Rockoz]

The retaining plate holds it all together and stops any floating.

As the seal is part of the setup, if it collapses, then the axle will be free to move a little bit.

Somehow, it would seem the seal has been damaged on installation, or it was the wrong seal.

If the other side is the same, then odds on, the seal was damaged on installation.

Probably not as hard to do as one might think.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[davelh]

Rob, that makes perfect sense mate! I have been racking my brain for days and that is the most sense that I have heard! Fingers crossed!

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[S pack]

Dave, is that seal rubber coated on the side or can you see the metal shell?

[davelh]

It is rubber coating. I don't have it here to check the condition all the way around though.

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[S pack]

The genuine GM seals have the metal shell of the bearing visible on the side and top surfaces where the seal contacts the axle tube housing and the retaining plate.

Perhaps the rubber coating has allowed the seal to move and spin in the housing.

[davelh]

To close the loop - it was most definitely installer error. Finally got the new one installed today and went together a lot easier.

No noise, wobbling or oil so happy me!

Cheers guys.

Dave 

[RallyRed]

Good news, and good work closin' the loop.