33 replies to this topic

[lctriples]

 IMG_28211.JPG   222.24K   10 downloadsAfter some advice please on LC/LJ Torana brakes (disc brake front end) brakes are really poor and due to fairly agressive cam which i believe creates poor vacuum (around 8hg inch on vacuum guage), tried a booster tank but didn't make any difference. I might have to invest in an electrical brake booster but are around $500. The question i have for forum member is if i need to re-install adjustment levers on rear brakes as per manual (stupid question i know) as i removed when springs broke some time ago as was told were only for self adjustment of brake shoes. I have adjusted rear brakes up as far as i can before brakes bind, but when pedal depressed can still turn by hand. Front brakes stop solid when brakes applied. Have re-bleed and checked pushrods work on slave cylinder which checked out ok. Any help would be greatly appreciated and apologies for asking such a stoopid question! Cheers in advance: Paul

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[LJ RB30]

Are both wheels still able to be turned while the pedal is pressed?

How old is the body to diff hose?

I have had a few of these internally collapse including one from new that will give this result.

[lctriples]

Hey Trev, yes both wheels turn. Flexible hose was brand new when i did diff around 5 years ago. The fact that slave cylinders are working well and pushing brake shoes out when you remove drum, makes me believe that is not a hydraulic problem, more of a mechanical fault. Thanks Paul

[S pack]

Nothing wrong with your rear brakes. They are not designed to lock up.

[lctriples]

Thanks Dave, appreciate that, might have to invest in an electric vacuum pump, thanks for clearing that up for me paul

[S pack]

Do you have the car registered yet? You may need the self adjusters to be installed for a road worthy cert?

You can live without the self adjusters however you will need to check the adjustment of the rear brakes as part of your regular servicing.

Edited by S pack, 06 March 2022 - 08:46 PM.

[lctriples]

Dave, yes car has been on the road for around 12 months, yes will make sure i keep an eye on the adjustment.

[sibhs]

Hi Paul, I had this problem when testing brakes on wheel stands. Rears don't come into action until you're deep into the brake pedal. 

Have you really tried pushing hard on the pedal while driving?  I would presume the brake booster would eventually get to full vacuum and once you use brake it may take a while to full again because of cam.  All amateur guesses here mate.

 

Marty

[UCSLE]

Drums don't work the same as disc brakes , drums are self energised so you can't really compare them when testing on wheel stands

are you sure the booster doesn't leak ?

what kind of vacuum pump are you looking at ? 

[MFM]

I had a similar issue with my car when I got it on the road a couple of years ago. Even with the factory XU1 booster the brakes felt inadequate at low revs after a couple of applications. I was advised that it was due to the high lift cam that's in the car (not standard XU1). Not long after that the booster bladder blew a hole so needed reconditioning but brakes didn't improve by much. The brakes are 1980's linings (front and back) but not sure what compound they used i.e soft pads gripped well when cold but not so good under high heat/heavy applications. Perhaps we have gotten used to the daily driver cars we use which have far better brake performance.

[dattoman]

Have a look at VE V6 vac pumps

[lctriples]

Marty:

My first car was a HR Sedan that had drums all round and no brake booster, were pretty ordinary and Torry feels about the same as i remeber the HR (see following in this post)

 

Troy:

You might be onto something, i bypassed vacuum hose from carby spacer to PCV valve instead of booster and i reckon made no difference to brake performance (ie booster might be faulty as no difference between vacuum boosted or no vac boost) is there any other way i can test brake booster for leaks. The other interesting thing is that i was having issues with holley 350, stalling ect and runs better when connected to pcv valve instead of booster which would support booster leaking theory. Havn't looked at electric vacuum pumps yet, my local brake workshop reckon ones they sell are around $400-$500 mark, you can get cheaper versions but i believe are a lot noisier. Would be interested to hear feedback from other forum members who have fitted them. I also re-fitted booster tank, again no difference.

 

MFM:

I also have a HR Prem Wagon, and tested vacuum reading as has a similar cam, interestingly has same vacuum reading. It has the old remote vacuum mounted to inner guard, we added a booster tank and brakes are pretty good, chalk and cheese when compared to Torana brakes. Unfortunately can't fit to torana to test as need to drill holes in guards, change brake lines ect, but if i can get Torana as same standard as wagon i would be pretty happy considering wagon is over 50years old.

 

Neil:

I have a VESV6 ute, will have a squizz tomorrow. Are they electronic boosted, not vac boosted??

 

Thanks for everyone's input. 

Edited by lctriples, 07 March 2022 - 07:25 PM.

[S pack]

Reconnect the vac hose to the booster. With the engine running listen to the rear of the booster. You should be able to hear the hissing of air being constantly sucked into the booster if the seals or the diaphragm are stuffed.

If still in doubt remove the booster and have it tested at a shop that repairs them.

[claysummers]

Empty your lungs and suck on the booster hose. If you are getting any air the diaphragm rubber is probably split.


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[UCSLE]

with the vacuum pumps just use a Hella UP28 if you what a pump to assist engine vacuum (VE pump) there cheap as

If you want a stand alone pump use a Hella UP5x

 

been testing some out 

 

the ones on the left are UP28 , Middle pump is a UP32 and the far right is a UP5x

 

the UP32 works good but is noisy so wouldn't recommend it

 

UP28 is really gutless but quiet , good enough to assist engine vac

 

The UP5x just kicks butt 

 

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[lctriples]

Tried listening for air escaping vacuum booster when car running but because exhaust is pretty loud, can't hear anything so sprayed some soapy water around hoses/joins, appears no leaks. couldn't draw air when using clays method either. had a look at my VE sv6 ute today but coudn't find electric vacuum pump, only vacuum hose from manifold to booster (have attached photo). Also wondering if booster faulty, electric pump wont help as booster wont hold vacuum anyways. If i do go down the electric pump path, do i need one with a cut of switch when it gets to certain capacity? I could always but a cheap aftermarket booster (around $100) but dont want to waste money and prefer the look of chrome LC one.  

Attached Files

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Edited by lctriples, 09 March 2022 - 07:51 PM.

[claysummers]

Sounds like booster is ok to me Paul. Less than 14”Hg you need a pump and tank I believe.


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[dattoman]

http://www.gmh-toran...mps-for-brakes/

[Dr Terry]

. had a look at my VE sv6 ute today but coudn't find electric vacuum pump, only vacuum hose from manifold to booster (have attached photo). 

I believe that the vacuum pumps are only fitted to SIDI (direct injection) V6s. The earlier LE0 & LY7 V6s didn't get them.

 

Dr Terry

[lctriples]

Mine is a early series 1 2007 so that makes sense!

[lctriples]

Hey Troy, if i go for a VEV6 pump, will i need some type of cut off switch, or do they have an inbuilt one, plus will i need an additional booster tank or will existing booster suffice? Cheers Paul

[UCSLE]

you need switch , have a look at the thread Neil posted http://www.gmh-toran...r-brakes/page-2 and at post #33 that rexy put up 

 

do the same as that post but plumb it to have engine vac as well

 

 

[rexy]

The pump needs to be part of a closed system or it will never achieve enough vacuum to reach shut off.

I couldn’t see how to make use of the engine vac so just set it up as a closed system with the booster.

[lctriples]

Rexy, do you mean to run electric pump to booster, no engine vac? Do i still need cut -off switch?/ Thanks Paul

[jd lj]

I can't see why you'd need to go to all this trouble. There's plenty of us using big cams successfully in LJ Torana's without having brake problems. I don't have the solution that you need but it seems that this is getting over complicated and may be a bandaid fix for an underlying problem.