17 replies to this topic

[Suni]

Seeking some advice from those who know a lot more than me.

 

I have front hq disc brakes on my Lx hatch. Everything has been drilled so I am running 14 inch genuine Torana stub pattern hot-wires and I do not want to change my rims.

 

I have enquired to hopper stoppers and they can provide a full new kit. However the kit is over $3500 parts alone. What other options do I have that I can retain my current rims and improve my front brakes without spending that much money.

 

Any advice is appreciated.

Edited by Suni, 28 June 2022 - 07:28 PM.

[dattoman]

With 14's... not much

Slotted discs and decent pads would be a start

[Suni]

Castlemaine rod shop has willwood calipers / brakes for $1000. It says it fits 14 inch rims. Commodore stub pattern. Would I be able to drill them to Torana stud pattern and fit them with not much changes?

 

In regards to the HQ discs, what are the best pads that I could get as a minimum improvement.

[Heath]

Wow. Hoppers did not used to be $3,500 in parts alone for front brakes... their website still lists under $2k for a 290mm front kit, which is a popular, and good quality kit.

 

14" Hotwires are a fair limitation mate, if you're trying to use a cheap, common, existing brake upgrade that someone else has already worked out for you.

I'd have thought a HQ size rotor with a modest caliper might be about as good as it gets. Example putting a nice Nissan (Sumitomo) 4-pot on there might be unrealistic with the small wheels. A little Wilwood 4-pot would probably fit okay but if you're actually struggling with brake performance, not sure that's going to help you much. They use quite small pads.

Have you got a front spoiler? And if so, do you have the brake ducts connected?

What are you using the car for that you're finding the limit of the brakes with?

I was in a Torana with HQ brakes on a track a few months ago when we totally lost brakes and went flying into the outfield of a short circuit, narrowly avoiding a bunch of scary shit. Certainly wouldn't have been keen to retain that setup after that experience hahahaha.

[neglectedtorana]

I think McDonald Brothers Racing have a HQ disc with choice of Wilwood or pbr calipers but I can't remember what size wheels fit with it

[rexy]

The NC racers have some very effective setups that fit under small wheels.

[Ice]

With 14's... not much

Slotted discs and decent pads would be a start

Cheapest option unless you’re going racing 

[Suni]

Thank you for your responses. In regards to the hopper stopper price. The price includes new rotors, calipers, lines etc etc. Basically everything I need to fit the disc on the smaller wheels.

 

I do not do racing, but I enjoy hills drives with gusto. I often have family with me so I don't want to rely on the HQ brakes. I want to feel more secure than that.  Right now I have not had a problem, but that is because I am getting off the gas well before corners because I do not want to risk it. I want to feel safe braking later, especially when I am in the car by myself and really want to push it harder.

 

I will do some research on NC racers

[Suni]

I should add car is an ss hatch unflared. Hence the smaller wheels creating the problem. It really looks like it is hoppers or retain the HQ. 

 

I currently have 14 x 9 hotwires. I have been looking at 15 inch hotwires and can only find 15 x 8 ( don't want thinner ) or 15 x 10 ( won't fit under guard. The 14 x 9's JUST fit well with no rubbing

Edited by Suni, 29 June 2022 - 10:46 AM.

[Heath]

Yeah, size options for 15" Hotwires are coarse as you've identified.

 

I'm actually a little unfamiliar with how you have HQ rotors, but Torana stud pattern. How exactly has that been achieved?

HQ rotors are a reasonable size, and they're vented, which is the main thing. But the calipers are nothing exciting... just a single piston slider. The Hoppers have a two piston slider which is not exactly race car technology, but it's good for wheel clearance and has a nice pad area. (they don't look amazing but Hotwires conceal brakes anyway)

 

Also, having a pad that's happy to operate at elevated temperatures is a very important part of brake performance... in fact it's the main thing relevant to your "driving with gusto" situation.

 

Most people fit much larger brakes than they ever take advantage of. Honestly you'd be distributing a fair few berries to get to the limit of HQ brakes with decent pads on the road. But it's certainly possible.

If you don't like the $3.5k cost of the Hoppers Kit (even though it is advertised for a lot less than that on their website) could you just do your own brake kit... using the HQ rotors and getting some bigger sliding 2-pot calipers from a wrecker, and making adaptors?

Generally with car stuff, you either:

a - do work

b - accept paying a lot more for an alternative where someone else has done the work for you

[UCSLE]

I dont think your brakes are the problem . Going for a drive in the hills with gusto isn't that bad but having family onboard isn't the smartest thing to do

[rexy]

Why not?

My lot love it.

[Suni]

Yeah, size options for 15" Hotwires are coarse as you've identified.

 

I'm actually a little unfamiliar with how you have HQ rotors, but Torana stud pattern. How exactly has that been achieved?

HQ rotors are a reasonable size, and they're vented, which is the main thing. But the calipers are nothing exciting... just a single piston slider. The Hoppers have a two piston slider which is not exactly race car technology, but it's good for wheel clearance and has a nice pad area. (they don't look amazing but Hotwires conceal brakes anyway)

 

Also, having a pad that's happy to operate at elevated temperatures is a very important part of brake performance... in fact it's the main thing relevant to your "driving with gusto" situation.

 

Most people fit much larger brakes than they ever take advantage of. Honestly you'd be distributing a fair few berries to get to the limit of HQ brakes with decent pads on the road. But it's certainly possible.

If you don't like the $3.5k cost of the Hoppers Kit (even though it is advertised for a lot less than that on their website) could you just do your own brake kit... using the HQ rotors and getting some bigger sliding 2-pot calipers from a wrecker, and making adaptors?

Generally with car stuff, you either:

a - do work

b - accept paying a lot more for an alternative where someone else has done the work for you

Fair advice. Yes I do not do my own work. So I do have to pay :( Hence my limited knowledge. However my mechanic / mate is very fair to me. My mechanic said that I had a HQ setup because my calipers were fouling causing me to lose brakes straight after full lock. Which he has to help correct with grinding and weld in a stopper to prevent me losing brakes. This has reduced my turning circle. It has worked though. I assume standard setup would not foul and do this?

[Suni]

I dont think your brakes are the problem . Going for a drive in the hills with gusto isn't that bad but having family onboard isn't the smartest thing to do

I do get your point. Speed limit driving in a Torana wears thin pretty quick for me though. I am not setting records with the family don't get me wrong. But yes I do trust my judgement between having some extra fun and not getting carried away. No real late braking, just open her up on the straights and hook into corners a bit. 

[Heath]

Eh, just because someone says something on the internet doesn't mean they are correct. You don't need to justify the enjoyment you get out of old cars. If you aren't driving your Torana fast on twisty roads then you and your family aren't maximising the fun you can have with the car.

 

Fair advice. Yes I do not do my own work. So I do have to pay :( Hence my limited knowledge. However my mechanic / mate is very fair to me. My mechanic said that I had a HQ setup because my calipers were fouling causing me to lose brakes straight after full lock. Which he has to help correct with grinding and weld in a stopper to prevent me losing brakes. This has reduced my turning circle. It has worked though. I assume standard setup would not foul and do this?

 

Absolutely correct. You need larger lock stops on those brake calipers because of the limited clearance to the upper arms. VN-VR type Commodore front calipers on a Torana share this problem. VERY scary stuff with those sliding calipers because you lose brakes after full lock as you say. Four pots (or any non-sliding caliper) does not have that problem, but they can come with their own clearance challenges.

Adding lock stops to a Torana just feels like such a shithouse thing to do... they have such a bad turning circle already hahaha.

[Bruiser]

Hahah You are so naughty, being a hoon
If your family aren’t scaredy passengers and trust your driving
Who are we to judge? I am a shithouse passenger, and my missus is
10 times worse. No fun for me with her in the car.
If you all like the giddy feeling of hard late braking,
you are doing exactly the right thing setting up
a really good set of brakes.
Have a good time, and stay safe

[Suni]

Eh, just because someone says something on the internet doesn't mean they are correct. You don't need to justify the enjoyment you get out of old cars. If you aren't driving your Torana fast on twisty roads then you and your family aren't maximising the fun you can have with the car.

 

 

Absolutely correct. You need larger lock stops on those brake calipers because of the limited clearance to the upper arms. VN-VR type Commodore front calipers on a Torana share this problem. VERY scary stuff with those sliding calipers because you lose brakes after full lock as you say. Four pots (or any non-sliding caliper) does not have that problem, but they can come with their own clearance challenges.

Adding lock stops to a Torana just feels like such a shithouse thing to do... they have such a bad turning circle already hahaha.

Yeah my turning circle has been reduced. At any sort of speed you do not notice it all. Slow speed parking etc its pretty bad. You def wanna make sure your lining in up good the first time. I agree, why own a Aussie v8 muscle car if you are not going to enjoy it. I do not judge, each to their own. I am only 34 years old, and still have some go in my spirit. I also only just finished my full running gear overall ( except front brakes obviously). So I do intend to enjoy my moneys worth.

Edited by Suni, 30 June 2022 - 05:42 PM.

[Suni]

Been doing a bit of research on pad upgrades. I do not think I will go hoppers. Yes they are better than HQ. Not sure if they are $3.8k for parts plus labour better for me at the moment.

 

I had EBC's on my evo 5. What experience do people have running EBC reds or yellows? I know yellow may seem over the top, however it claims to work as good as standard or if not better cold and then only get better with heat. Given HQ's are not as good as modern setups, I thought it would make sense to get the highest level of grip as possible from the pad?

 

Any experience would be appreciated.