Anybody used this Fox Fuel Injection?

G'Day,

 

Anyone used these injections systems that look old school?

 

 

 

 14469601_1794189360856933_7376049909036072843_n_grande.jpg   20.06K   6 downloads

 

https://foxinjection...e-throttle-body

 

I'm thinking about it for the road registered track car as an alternative to Webers.

 

Feedback much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Liz

Interesting find, Liz... pity they don't do an IDA look-alike.

 

Some better pictures...

 

 

 

Edited by Bigfella237, 06 January 2021 - 04:14 PM.

Interesting find, Liz... pity they don't do an IDA look-alike.

Some better pictures...

Hey Bigfella,

Thanks for the extra pics, not sure why I only got one to attach in my post.

Stupid question alert here...what is an IDA?

Cheers,

Liz


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Stupid question alert here...what is an IDA?

They're just different models of Weber carby, the sidedraft ones (that look like the above) are "DCOE" models, some of the downdraft ones are "DFEV" and "DGV" and of course "IDA" models...

 

 

EDIT: Don't ask me what all the letters stand for (if they stand for anything), it would all be in Italian anyway!

Edited by Bigfella237, 06 January 2021 - 07:13 PM.

Assuming that you want to keep your genuine xu1 looking fairly original, it would be far easier to go for a new set of webbers & probably cheaper. You can get some good stuff for webbers now days to. Fuel injection is going require a minimum half re wire, ecu, probably a crank trigger, new distributor lots of changes. It might accelerate and decellerate smoother, but i personally think for the little bit of gain, you're going to be buying & changing a lot of things. Do some research into a set uf webbers including all the billet internals you can get first, would be honest advice.

Assuming that you want to keep your genuine xu1 looking fairly original, it would be far easier to go for a new set of webbers & probably cheaper. You can get some good stuff for webbers now days to. Fuel injection is going require a minimum half re wire, ecu, probably a crank trigger, new distributor lots of changes. It might accelerate and decellerate smoother, but i personally think for the little bit of gain, you're going to be buying & changing a lot of things. Do some research into a set uf webbers including all the billet internals you can get first, would be honest advice.

Thanks for that. Yeah, just weighing up those two options really. I don’t want to make too many changes but new Webers are shit so I’d be buying original Italian Webers and it would be expensive either way.

The fact that the car is road and track is one reason I’m looking at the EFI stuff so I could potentially have two ECU chips, one to make it more practical driving to and from track then change chip for track use.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers,

Liz


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Basically Weber’s most common carbs are DCOE = sidedraft , IDA and IDF = downdraft . The two bores in IDA are wider apart than IDF is the main difference .

Basically Weber’s most common carbs are DCOE = sidedraft , IDA and IDF = downdraft . The two bores in IDA are wider apart than IDF is the main difference .

Thanks for that, appreciate it.

Love the look of the downdraft ones but I need to buy another car for those

Cheers,

Liz


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I was going to reply to this last night but didn't get up to it.

DCOE (Doppio Corpo Orizzontale E; "Double-Body Horizontal E").
That was taken from Wikipedia but doppio= double, corpo=throat,orizzontale=horizontal and off the top of my head I can't recall what the E stands for.

I've seen the Jenvy throttle bodies on their website in the past during my in depth Weber research and like the idea for people who want to maintain the old school look but I have no experience with them myself. One important difference is that they don't have a choke that the size can be changed as their throat size appears to be fixed unlike the Weber carbs. The difference between a track or road set up on DCOE Weber's will be the choke size and then jetting changes to suit. On Dcoe's the choke size can be changed to suit your needs as can everything else. A smaller choke will give you more torque down low and be great for the street but won't produce as much outright power as a large choke which is more advantageous at high rpms but then lacks bottom end drivability. For a street driven car 34-36 and maybe 38mm chokes are good but for a track car 36-40mm chokes are good. So if you want to enjoy driving it on both the street and the track then I'd suggest using 36-38mm chokes.

There's nothing wrong with buying brand new DCOE WEBER's and by the time that you find a matching set of 45dcoe's and rebuild them and replace any missing or damaged parts new ones will probably be cheaper. However even on new ones I'd give them a once over and tidy up the casting on the auxiliary ventruis atleast.

The std Weber idle jets can be improved upon by using ones that I can supply which will be matched to your manifold vacuum level.

The std weber emulsion tubes have a few problems which lead to the classic mid range flat spot that Webers are known for but again i can supply vastly superior emulsion tubes to eliminate this problem. I spent years trying to solve this problem without making the transition from the idle circuit to the main circuit too rich and now thanks to a friend of mine there's a solution to this available to everyone.

Since you're using a Seton manifold I can also supply a custom air box that I designed specifically for the Seton manifold, there's pictures in a thread I wrote about it or I can send you some. The air box gives the opportunity for decent air filtration, can be plumbed into a pcv system, contains fumes and can be ducted to outside air.

Buying used dcoe's make sure that they're all the same model of dcoe with matching progression hole patterns i.e. 45dcoe9,45dcoe13,45dcoe152G's etc. There's also 45dcoe54-57 (IIRC) from a RT Charger but these can be more expensive than other models.
45dcoe152's differ from the current 45dcoe152G's, the 152's have the first progression hole too far upstream which can cause an off idle stumble, but they can be modified to rectify this.

If you get used carbs and need them rebuilt I'm willing and experienced in doing that, it's a bit of a passion of mine(not that you could tell that I'm into these by reading this post,lol).

I've also written extensively about tuning these in another thread on our forum,don't believe mist of the B.S. written that's out there, I'm happy to help if you're happy to listen and follow my advise and mine only, I can assure that you'll get good results but too many chef's spoil the brew so to speak. I have parts like return spring brackets and accelerator cable wheels available too.

James D

I was going to reply to this last night but didn't get up to it.

DCOE (Doppio Corpo Orizzontale E; "Double-Body Horizontal E").
That was taken from Wikipedia but doppio= double, corpo=throat,orizzontale=horizontal and off the top of my head I can't recall what the E stands for.

I've seen the Jenvy throttle bodies on their website in the past during my in depth Weber research and like the idea for people who want to maintain the old school look but I have no experience with them myself. One important difference is that they don't have a choke that the size can be changed as their throat size appears to be fixed unlike the Weber carbs. The difference between a track or road set up on DCOE Weber's will be the choke size and then jetting changes to suit. On Dcoe's the choke size can be changed to suit your needs as can everything else. A smaller choke will give you more torque down low and be great for the street but won't produce as much outright power as a large choke which is more advantageous at high rpms but then lacks bottom end drivability. For a street driven car 34-36 and maybe 38mm chokes are good but for a track car 36-40mm chokes are good. So if you want to enjoy driving it on both the street and the track then I'd suggest using 36-38mm chokes.

There's nothing wrong with buying brand new DCOE WEBER's and by the time that you find a matching set of 45dcoe's and rebuild them and replace any missing or damaged parts new ones will probably be cheaper. However even on new ones I'd give them a once over and tidy up the casting on the auxiliary ventruis atleast.

The std Weber idle jets can be improved upon by using ones that I can supply which will be matched to your manifold vacuum level.

The std weber emulsion tubes have a few problems which lead to the classic mid range flat spot that Webers are known for but again i can supply vastly superior emulsion tubes to eliminate this problem. I spent years trying to solve this problem without making the transition from the idle circuit to the main circuit too rich and now thanks to a friend of mine there's a solution to this available to everyone.

Since you're using a Seton manifold I can also supply a custom air box that I designed specifically for the Seton manifold, there's pictures in a thread I wrote about it or I can send you some. The air box gives the opportunity for decent air filtration, can be plumbed into a pcv system, contains fumes and can be ducted to outside air.

Buying used dcoe's make sure that they're all the same model of dcoe with matching progression hole patterns i.e. 45dcoe9,45dcoe13,45dcoe152G's etc. There's also 45dcoe54-57 (IIRC) from a RT Charger but these can be more expensive than other models.
45dcoe152's differ from the current 45dcoe152G's, the 152's have the first progression hole too far upstream which can cause an off idle stumble, but they can be modified to rectify this.

If you get used carbs and need them rebuilt I'm willing and experienced in doing that, it's a bit of a passion of mine(not that you could tell that I'm into these by reading this post,lol).

I've also written extensively about tuning these in another thread on our forum,don't believe mist of the B.S. written that's out there, I'm happy to help if you're happy to listen and follow my advise and mine only, I can assure that you'll get good results but too many chef's spoil the brew so to speak. I have parts like return spring brackets and accelerator cable wheels available too.

James D

WoW! Thank you so much for the detailed info here, very much appreciated and yes I can tell that you are into these Webers, just a bit

 

I probably need to chat to you to work out exactly what I want to do. I will pm you.

Cheers,

 

Liz

Very good advice from a man that really does know what he is talking about and a hell of a nice bloke along with it.

Very good advice from a man that really does know what he is talking about and a hell of a nice bloke along with it.

Thanks for the thumbs up Wayne, it really helps a girl out knowing who's good. Means a great deal coming from you

 

Cheers,

 

Liz

I used 3 TWM 45mm DCOE pattern on the 265 Hemi in my UC hatch with Haltech ECU.

The 45mm throttle bodies flow better than 48mm webers no internal restrictions with throttle bodies

 

I don't like the look of those old school ones you posted i wouldn't buy them

 

The biggest advantage with injection over weber carbies is you don't have to remove them then pull them all apart just to make some changes it's all done by pressing buttons on a laptop don't get your hands dirty a lot less work in setting up and maintaining them. 

 

Chrysler owners manual suggested using hotter plugs to prevent fouling for prolonged slow driving and said these hotter plugs must not be used for high speed driving to avoid detonation i was able to run colder plugs never had any problems.

 

I had a 600 Holley with vac secondary, triple 45mm dcoe and finally injection which worked the best under all conditions with any old classic i would always convert to injection it works much better.

 

Before i put cold air box on air temps would rise while stopped at idle for a while causing it to ping a little when taking off the air temp correction maps allowed me to pull about 3 deg of advance out which stopped pinging then went back to full advance when air temp dropped. It also had fuel correction map so you could run it a little richer when coolant temp increased.

 

Part throttle cruise had huge gains i cranked it up to around 38 deg advance at 2-3% throttle opening it purred like a kitten it was docile like a modern car in peak hour traffic. I could cruise around at speed limits using less than 5% throttle fuel economy was excellent fuel cut on deceleration cut fuel to injectors when lifting off and coasting it cut back in around 1200 rpm.

 

No choke to worry about with cold starts you can program enrichment by coolant temp started very quickly as injectors squirt fuel when cranking.

 

If you go injection control ignition timing with ECU as well i used a Lumenition optical pickup welded mech advance up dizzy had to be locked as ECU controls it had MSD 6 on it.

 

Fuel delivery needs lines capable of higher pressure high pressure capable fuel filter i would put swirl pot in tank fed by low pressure pump from tank with high pressure pump supplying injectors. Not a huge drama used Earls Stat o seal for return line so no welding needed for that fitting.

 

Also helps with theft prevention if car is left for a while then change fuel and ignition maps to something that doesn't supply fuel or spark so it can't start fuel pump switches can also help with this. If you have kids or lend it you can load another map that doesn't work if they use more than 20% Throttle opening.

 

Nothing to be afraid of with injection when you figure it out you will find it's much easier than fiddling with carbies.

 

 

 

I used 3 TWM 45mm DCOE pattern on the 265 Hemi in my UC hatch with Haltech ECU.

The 45mm throttle bodies flow better than 48mm webers no internal restrictions with throttle bodies

 

I don't like the look of those old school ones you posted i wouldn't buy them

 

The biggest advantage with injection over weber carbies is you don't have to remove them then pull them all apart just to make some changes it's all done by pressing buttons on a laptop don't get your hands dirty a lot less work in setting up and maintaining them. 

 

Chrysler owners manual suggested using hotter plugs to prevent fouling for prolonged slow driving and said these hotter plugs must not be used for high speed driving to avoid detonation i was able to run colder plugs never had any problems.

 

I had a 600 Holley with vac secondary, triple 45mm dcoe and finally injection which worked the best under all conditions with any old classic i would always convert to injection it works much better.

 

Before i put cold air box on air temps would rise while stopped at idle for a while causing it to ping a little when taking off the air temp correction maps allowed me to pull about 3 deg of advance out which stopped pinging then went back to full advance when air temp dropped. It also had fuel correction map so you could run it a little richer when coolant temp increased.

 

Part throttle cruise had huge gains i cranked it up to around 38 deg advance at 2-3% throttle opening it purred like a kitten it was docile like a modern car in peak hour traffic. I could cruise around at speed limits using less than 5% throttle fuel economy was excellent fuel cut on deceleration cut fuel to injectors when lifting off and coasting it cut back in around 1200 rpm.

 

No choke to worry about with cold starts you can program enrichment by coolant temp started very quickly as injectors squirt fuel when cranking.

 

If you go injection control ignition timing with ECU as well i used a Lumenition optical pickup welded mech advance up dizzy had to be locked as ECU controls it had MSD 6 on it.

 

Fuel delivery needs lines capable of higher pressure high pressure capable fuel filter i would put swirl pot in tank fed by low pressure pump from tank with high pressure pump supplying injectors. Not a huge drama used Earls Stat o seal for return line so no welding needed for that fitting.

 

Also helps with theft prevention if car is left for a while then change fuel and ignition maps to something that doesn't supply fuel or spark so it can't start fuel pump switches can also help with this. If you have kids or lend it you can load another map that doesn't work if they use more than 20% Throttle opening.

 

Nothing to be afraid of with injection when you figure it out you will find it's much easier than fiddling with carbies.

Hi Baron,

 

Very interesting stuff, I never knew so much was possible with the efi stuff. Something to think about for sure.

 

Thanks for the firsthand info.

 

Cheers,

 

Liz

Have a look at EFI Hardware in Melbourne.

I got a set of downdraft injected throttle bodies for my secret project that is going LS1.

Heath had done a set for his Holden engine.

There will always be more advantages going EFI than carbies.

If you drove a carb 308, then jumped into an EFI 5 litre, the extra grunt was immediately felt.

Better fuel economy as well.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

Have a look at EFI Hardware in Melbourne.
I got a set of downdraft injected throttle bodies for my secret project that is going LS1.
Heath had done a set for his Holden engine.
There will always be more advantages going EFI than carbies.
If you drove a carb 308, then jumped into an EFI 5 litre, the extra grunt was immediately felt.
Better fuel economy as well.

Cheers

Rob

Thanks for the suggestion Rob, I’ll look into it and have passed it into my workshop who are also checking out options for me.

Cheers,

Liz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have a look at EFI Hardware in Melbourne.
I got a set of downdraft injected throttle bodies for my secret project that is going LS1.
Heath had done a set for his Holden engine.
There will always be more advantages going EFI than carbies.
If you drove a carb 308, then jumped into an EFI 5 litre, the extra grunt was immediately felt.
Better fuel economy as well.
 
Cheers
 
Rob

The better head design, makes most of that difference, that's for sure.

The better head design, makes most of that difference, that's for sure.

Agree. In theory and all else equal, an EFI 5.0L as standard compared to the same engine with a good carb in proper tune and with a similar camshaft but optimised for a carb should develop similar power. The carb version may in this case lack some low end torque but that is the nature of that particular head. The EFI engine will almost always be better on cold start, economy etc especially if it is adaptive (lean cruise, knock sensor etc). I have gone for a mix of old and new, with the stroked 350, early EFI Corvette heads, dual plane air gap manifold, hydraulic roller and the Holley Sniper/Hyperspark setup. I know I could have gone for a more custom setup with port injection, but I wanted it to be simple plug and play but be easily tuneable. Plus I wanted the classic GM Quadrajet sound (hence the Sniper Quadrajet rather than the squarebore) and take a standard Corvette drop base air cleaner so the engine bay looks very much like it is from 1968 (apart from the serpentine setup, but that is all black to hide it a bit). The Corvette alloy heads have even been modified to take GenI SBC valve covers. Even running Ramshorns (albeit Corvette 2.5”). The Holley hyperspark dizzy even looks a lot like a 1968 dizzy, and takes an external coil, again will make it look like 1968 at first glance.