I know its not torry, but i cant seem to get a straight answer anywhere else.
Is the K-frame on a power steering fitted VH 6 cylinder the same as a Power steering fitted V8.
Will a 308 sit straight into an orig 6 k-frame with with the v8 mounts obviously.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
COMMODORE K-FRAME
Started by
_JNR_ATE_
, Nov 18 2006 03:52 PM
19 replies to this topic
#4
_LX8VD69_
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 05:40 PM
im told that all commodore kframes are the same from VB to VN, but i would have thought upto and including VL
#5
micklx
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 06:50 PM
Yes, Chopper is right.
I bent my V8 one a few months ago and replaced it with one from a 6 cyl.
I bent my V8 one a few months ago and replaced it with one from a 6 cyl.
#6
_MRNOS_
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 07:14 PM
vn-vp have the same strut/s but maybe slightly wider trackim told that all commodore kframes are the same from VB to VN, but i would have thought upto and including VL
#7
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 07:43 PM
VB - VK are the same. Rack position changed slightly with the VL. VN is wider.
#8
_JNR_ATE_
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 08:58 PM
Yeah, all good news. im pretty sure the VL 6 cylinder K-frame is different to the V8 models, thats the reason i asked.
Cheers
JNR_ATE
Cheers
JNR_ATE
#9
rodomo
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Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:32 PM
Good news for me too as I am about to put a six where an eight used to be.
#10
_TOBES_
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Posted 19 November 2006 - 05:30 AM
Hi guys
I was told the VL 6 Cyl(RB30) and V8 K-frames were different so bought a V8 one.
The 6 is still in the car so they are hard to compare, but the frames themselves look to be the same... Is there a difference in the mounts..?
Also where did they get the extra width in the VN, in the K-frame or are the bottom arms longer..?
I'm using VN struts as the sway bar mount is on the strut, and have a pair of VN bottom arms that I was going to rebush. If they are longer then I will have to wait till I get the VL ones out, which will ruin my one weekend suspension boltover hopes...
Cheers
BBB
I was told the VL 6 Cyl(RB30) and V8 K-frames were different so bought a V8 one.
The 6 is still in the car so they are hard to compare, but the frames themselves look to be the same... Is there a difference in the mounts..?
Also where did they get the extra width in the VN, in the K-frame or are the bottom arms longer..?
I'm using VN struts as the sway bar mount is on the strut, and have a pair of VN bottom arms that I was going to rebush. If they are longer then I will have to wait till I get the VL ones out, which will ruin my one weekend suspension boltover hopes...
Cheers
BBB
#11
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 19 November 2006 - 11:53 AM
The VL six and V8 could well be different. The VN is wider everywhere ( body, track etc. ). I've been told the struts and lower control arms are the same from VB - VP, so that means the difference would have to be in the K frame. Mind you, I've never measured one.
#12
_TOBES_
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Posted 19 November 2006 - 05:59 PM
Cool, thanks for the info Chopper.
Had a good crawl and measure today and if there is a difference in the arms, I can't pick it(bloody hard to see tho). I will do the VN arms and keep my fingers crossed...
Cheers
BBB
Had a good crawl and measure today and if there is a difference in the arms, I can't pick it(bloody hard to see tho). I will do the VN arms and keep my fingers crossed...
Cheers
BBB
#13
_moot_
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Posted 20 November 2006 - 06:25 AM
vb-vk are all the same.VB - VK are the same. Rack position changed slightly with the VL. VN is wider.
vl v8-vs v8 are the same (different rack mounting positions to vb-vk)
vl 6's and any v'6's are different.
i used a vs k frame in my vk with a manual vl rack for exhaust clearance.
#14
Dr Terry
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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:16 PM
Hi Guys.
A few myths floating around here. I'll try to remedy the situation.
1. The distance between the 2 chassis rails from VB to VS is the same. Any VB to VS K-member will bolt to any pair of VB to VS chassis rails. BUT !!
2. The front track measurement is the same from VB to VP (except for some small variations in wheel types). Bolt-up-face to bolt-up-face is identical. Lower arms, struts rods & struts are also all the same from VB to VP, the only change being the stabiliser bars links going to the strut itself on VN/VP. The VN/VP lower arm still has the hole for the VB/VL link but is not used. When Holden released the VN it had a wider rear track than the earlies but the front remained the same.
3. The K-member is the same from VB to VP except for differences in engine mounts (VL6 & VN/VP V6) & rack mounts. All Holden 6 & V8 engine mounts are the same. There are 3 different types of steering rack mounts listed below.
4. The strut mounting & lower arms is different for VR/VS & the K-member is different to cater for this. The VR & VS have more positive castor designed into the front end geometry. The VR/VS also have a wider front track than the VB to VN, because of longer lower arms.
5. All P/st racks from VB to VK use the same mounts, these mounts are also the same as non-P/St from mid-VH to VK. VB to mid-VH non-P/st rack mounts are unique, the rack is mounted higher, requiring a shorter intermediate shaft. All racks VB to VK are TRW.
6. Rack mounts from VL to VS (for the Bendix-Bishop type rack, both P/st & non-P/st) are the same, but smaller than the VK & earlier.
Has that helped or complicated things ?
Dr Terry.
A few myths floating around here. I'll try to remedy the situation.
1. The distance between the 2 chassis rails from VB to VS is the same. Any VB to VS K-member will bolt to any pair of VB to VS chassis rails. BUT !!
2. The front track measurement is the same from VB to VP (except for some small variations in wheel types). Bolt-up-face to bolt-up-face is identical. Lower arms, struts rods & struts are also all the same from VB to VP, the only change being the stabiliser bars links going to the strut itself on VN/VP. The VN/VP lower arm still has the hole for the VB/VL link but is not used. When Holden released the VN it had a wider rear track than the earlies but the front remained the same.
3. The K-member is the same from VB to VP except for differences in engine mounts (VL6 & VN/VP V6) & rack mounts. All Holden 6 & V8 engine mounts are the same. There are 3 different types of steering rack mounts listed below.
4. The strut mounting & lower arms is different for VR/VS & the K-member is different to cater for this. The VR & VS have more positive castor designed into the front end geometry. The VR/VS also have a wider front track than the VB to VN, because of longer lower arms.
5. All P/st racks from VB to VK use the same mounts, these mounts are also the same as non-P/St from mid-VH to VK. VB to mid-VH non-P/st rack mounts are unique, the rack is mounted higher, requiring a shorter intermediate shaft. All racks VB to VK are TRW.
6. Rack mounts from VL to VS (for the Bendix-Bishop type rack, both P/st & non-P/st) are the same, but smaller than the VK & earlier.
Has that helped or complicated things ?
Dr Terry.
#15
rodomo
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Posted 20 November 2006 - 03:38 PM
The way I read this means if you fit VR/VS lower control arms to a VC you would get instant negative camber and a wider track? Can this be done without too much drama? Any idea how much longer they are?4. The strut mounting & lower arms is different for VR/VS & the K-member is different to cater for this. The VR & VS have more positive castor designed into the front end geometry. The VR/VS also have a wider front track than the VB to VN, because of longer lower arms.
#16
_CHOPPER_
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Posted 20 November 2006 - 04:55 PM
Rob, all Commodores up to VX ( haven't seen specs for models after that ) have negative camber from the factory. I think the VC/VH 4 bangers had the most at -2 degrees. The first problem with your idea of the different lower arms would be running out of toe adjustment.
[EDIT] The second would be the radius rods ( Z bars ) wouldn't bolt up.
[EDIT] The second would be the radius rods ( Z bars ) wouldn't bolt up.
Edited by CHOPPER, 20 November 2006 - 04:56 PM.
#17
rodomo
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Posted 20 November 2006 - 11:05 PM
Ah yes, the "Z" bars, they don't like to move do they? Maybe VR/VS ones fit? Or maybe aa "adjustment" on the holes in the towers as previously thought. 
#18
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 04:12 PM
VR/S are toatally different and would require VR/S struts ( which won't bolt into VB - VP commodores ) and VR/S lower arms. Sway bar probably won't bolt up either.
#19
_TOBES_
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 06:46 PM
Dr Terry, your a gem. Now I can proceed with confidence.
One further question...
I have a pair of Whiteline adjustable sway bars, 27mm front and 22mm rear.
If I use the VN struts with the sway bar mount on the strut, how will it affect the action of the front bar?
Looking at the VB-VL setup and the length of the bottom arm from bush to ball joint, the sway bar link mount is about 2/3 the distance out from the inner mount. So if the wheel moves up 3", the sway bar end moves up 2".
With the VN strut, if the wheel moves up 3" then the sway bar end will move the same 3".
Does this increase the effect of the sway bar by 50%?????????
One further question...
I have a pair of Whiteline adjustable sway bars, 27mm front and 22mm rear.
If I use the VN struts with the sway bar mount on the strut, how will it affect the action of the front bar?
Looking at the VB-VL setup and the length of the bottom arm from bush to ball joint, the sway bar link mount is about 2/3 the distance out from the inner mount. So if the wheel moves up 3", the sway bar end moves up 2".
With the VN strut, if the wheel moves up 3" then the sway bar end will move the same 3".
Does this increase the effect of the sway bar by 50%?????????
#20
rodomo
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 07:07 PM
It does effect the travel, thats why they did it. The down side is the link between the lower arm and the strut has to twist in its bushes as the strut turns. Common for the link to break on road cars.
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