I know a few guys are going to think I am wasting my time and maybe I am but...I have just picked up a Factory red 186 hi comp head thats in good shape.
I was wanting to know if any out there has tried to port a head them self?
I know its not as eazy as grabing a die grinder and going for it but I was thinking with the right template and a few hours every night in a week I might be able to do it.
I may end up sending it away to be done but I would be happier to take that cash and put it on other upgrades if I can port it myself.
so if you have given it a go let me know if it worked any ideas on the best way or just comments on how it done would help
thanks again
antony
porting a red head? anyone given it a go
Started by
_superlowuc_
, Jan 17 2006 12:10 PM
17 replies to this topic
#2
_Oldn64_
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 02:13 PM
Yes I have done my own heads before, and yes you can do it, but realistically you need to have access to a flow bench to do it justice (i did at the time) and hope you do not find the water jacket. Personally, it would be better to hand it over to someone whom has done ti before and knows the profile to build. they will have less chance of water divining and the results will be a hell of alot better in the long run..
Cheers
Cheers
#3
FastEHHolden
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 04:22 PM
I read a suggestion in some mag yonks ago....pay to get 1 port (pair of ports in this case) done so then you can go away and try to match it.
#4
Tiny
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 09:31 AM
Port work is part of th magic of building a tough engine...
I'd highly doubt youd get a head porter to give you his secrets cause this is where they make big money! Its very time consuming and as tim said if you dont know what your doing... Or if your unlucky you can end up in water jackets in seconds OR completely stuffing thw flow of the head!
Luckily ive SEEN some good head porting, and ive been told a few of teh secrets... but i'd still never give it a go at this stage ( i'd be practicing on many old crappyheads first!)
I know of a mechanic ( and i do mean mechanic) who saw the work of my engine builder's head porting on a red 6... decide he could do that... and tried to "copy" the head only to find he completely stuffed the head he worked on with ports that wouldnt flow... He went backwards in power after all his hard work! But boy did they look nice
LOL
I'd highly doubt youd get a head porter to give you his secrets cause this is where they make big money! Its very time consuming and as tim said if you dont know what your doing... Or if your unlucky you can end up in water jackets in seconds OR completely stuffing thw flow of the head!
Luckily ive SEEN some good head porting, and ive been told a few of teh secrets... but i'd still never give it a go at this stage ( i'd be practicing on many old crappyheads first!)
I know of a mechanic ( and i do mean mechanic) who saw the work of my engine builder's head porting on a red 6... decide he could do that... and tried to "copy" the head only to find he completely stuffed the head he worked on with ports that wouldnt flow... He went backwards in power after all his hard work! But boy did they look nice
LOL
#5
makka
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 09:55 AM
I have been meaning to try doing a high port conversion to a red 6 head, I wanna see if I can pull it off, i doubt i could though.
#6
Tiny
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 10:01 AM
high port conversion? Does that mean openeing out the port upward, but filling up the bottom of the port?
Thats something we do to clevo heads... fill up the bottom of the port with BELZONA its a 2 part epoxy filler that sets like steel, and then clean whats needed....
witht eh belzona.. make sure you can positive fix it some how.. weve screwed grub screws though the bottom of teh head up into it so it CANT move if it ever were to come unstuck.
Cheers.
Thats something we do to clevo heads... fill up the bottom of the port with BELZONA its a 2 part epoxy filler that sets like steel, and then clean whats needed....
witht eh belzona.. make sure you can positive fix it some how.. weve screwed grub screws though the bottom of teh head up into it so it CANT move if it ever were to come unstuck.
Cheers.
#7
_superlowuc_
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 11:00 AM
thanks guys I will do my home work see what kind of $$$ are in it and think about it some more
cheers antony
cheers antony
#8
Tiny
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 12:44 PM
Antony: Just to give you a little more info, Youd need some carbide burrs, one long one shaped like a football.. i think theyre about $70! and a couple of different shaped short ones ... All up i think youd need to spend about $150 in carbide burrs ( i'm assuming youve got die grinder and air gear alread) to give it a go!
Best of luck mate, I'm not saying DONT do it... just dont do it to ahead that is a one off, or rare! Best to find a garden variety head and go for your life!
Cheers.
Best of luck mate, I'm not saying DONT do it... just dont do it to ahead that is a one off, or rare! Best to find a garden variety head and go for your life!
Cheers.
#9
_superlowuc_
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 01:08 PM
thanks Tiny I do have a pretty good garage set up ,and I am in the US on hoilday right now and have access to well priced cutters but I would like so more info on other size bits other than the football one That i might find helpful
Good idea I may look at trying to port my old 186 head anfd hold on to the hi comp one in case I F#$K the hi comp one
thanks
antony
Good idea I may look at trying to port my old 186 head anfd hold on to the hi comp one in case I F#$K the hi comp one
thanks
antony
#10
Tiny
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 01:21 PM
No worries antony...
THe only cutters that ive seen the engine builder use are the long stemmed football shaped one ( he does about 90% of the work with that) and then a tapered cutter ( that tapers to almost a sharp point) to match manifolds and stuff, and thats about it really!
The long stemmed cutters are the biggest thing this allows you to get rightdown into the ports while seeing what your doing. Thats about all i can help you with!
THe only cutters that ive seen the engine builder use are the long stemmed football shaped one ( he does about 90% of the work with that) and then a tapered cutter ( that tapers to almost a sharp point) to match manifolds and stuff, and thats about it really!
The long stemmed cutters are the biggest thing this allows you to get rightdown into the ports while seeing what your doing. Thats about all i can help you with!
#12
originalglenn
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#13
_[BOTTLEDUP]_
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 07:05 PM
I did my own Clevo heads, 2V closed chambers. Thought I'd done a pretty decent job flow tested them and got 246cfm. Then my boss waved his magic wand and they went to 277cfm.
Cyl head porting is an art, and one that takes a lot of practice and failures to learn yourself. Things that work wonders on one type of head achieve little or nothing on another...
If you are going to the US get the long shank flame tree burrs... Make sure you get the ones for steel, not alloy.
Red heads aren't a very nice head to work with, the main problem is the shared runner, as when the valve opens it draws through twice the runner area of a blue head. Also, the area where the two ports join causes turbulance and restricts airflow.
Better bet is a 12 port head, especially the castings available from Yella Terra.
Cyl head porting is an art, and one that takes a lot of practice and failures to learn yourself. Things that work wonders on one type of head achieve little or nothing on another...
If you are going to the US get the long shank flame tree burrs... Make sure you get the ones for steel, not alloy.
Red heads aren't a very nice head to work with, the main problem is the shared runner, as when the valve opens it draws through twice the runner area of a blue head. Also, the area where the two ports join causes turbulance and restricts airflow.
Better bet is a 12 port head, especially the castings available from Yella Terra.
#14
_superlowuc_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:44 AM
hey thanks fro the info the link is great!! I did on know the problems with a red head, would I be better to put a bule or black head on it I kno what they do not fit with out some mods, any one know what is needed? I do not want to chage the whole engine at this stage as I have a cert for the 186 but if a blue or back head is a better starting point than a red one I will work with that
cheers antony
cheers antony
#15
_1QUICK LJ_
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 01:36 PM
if you do the porting your self then stick mainly to the bowl areas just under the valve and slim down the guide boss a bit, when port matching keep the port opening as small as possible ,also when working near the guide boss put a bit more port bias on the cylinder wall side of the intake port (make port wall slightly wider down cyl wall side of guide boss) if in doubt i can email you some diagrams.
also dont change short side angle to much just blend it in
also dont change short side angle to much just blend it in
#16
racean69
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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:07 PM
I ported a red head once.... she was orsome. 
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