https://cache.gmh-to...IMAGE_00033.jpg
sorry about the phone picture.
Edited by jabba, 23 January 2006 - 09:23 PM.
Making rust repairs last?
Started by
_jabba_
, Jan 23 2006 09:20 PM
21 replies to this topic
#1
_jabba_
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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:20 PM
Im in the process of making a rust repair patch for the monaro and im just wondering how do i rust proof this area, it looks like the inner skin is fairly well pressed up agenst the outter skin. If i rust proof it before welding the patch in id say the rust proofing will just burn off, how do i make the repair last? Im planning on wire brushing and rust converting the infected areas, then where do i go from there? I've got a patch ready to go in from a sedan door, just needs to be trimmed up.
https://cache.gmh-to...IMAGE_00033.jpg
sorry about the phone picture.
https://cache.gmh-to...IMAGE_00033.jpg
sorry about the phone picture.
#2
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Posted 23 January 2006 - 10:50 PM
Some weld through primer is a good start.
You can buy it in Aerosol form from paint'n'panel suppliers and i'd guess any welding consumables shop.
Its probably not 100% rust proof on its own but when i do a patch i weld through primer the repaired areas after its cut out and treated then weld in the patch then go to the inside of the repair clean it up as much as possible (either with a clean'n'strip wheel etc if i can get to it easily or just a thinners or prepsol rag to clean up any rubbish) Then i like to give it all a good blow out with compressed air and spray some Acrylic primer over the entire repaired area, then brush seam sealer over all the welds, then seal it up with some GMH black let it all dry.
Once the car/panel is painted and back together i normally like to drown it in rust proofing.
Trouble is you can't guarantee rust all you can do is hopefully remove it completely and seal/suffocate the rest to avoid it coming back.
You can buy it in Aerosol form from paint'n'panel suppliers and i'd guess any welding consumables shop.
Its probably not 100% rust proof on its own but when i do a patch i weld through primer the repaired areas after its cut out and treated then weld in the patch then go to the inside of the repair clean it up as much as possible (either with a clean'n'strip wheel etc if i can get to it easily or just a thinners or prepsol rag to clean up any rubbish) Then i like to give it all a good blow out with compressed air and spray some Acrylic primer over the entire repaired area, then brush seam sealer over all the welds, then seal it up with some GMH black let it all dry.
Once the car/panel is painted and back together i normally like to drown it in rust proofing.
Trouble is you can't guarantee rust all you can do is hopefully remove it completely and seal/suffocate the rest to avoid it coming back.
#3
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:14 PM
I bought a pressure pack of weld through primer, a tin of tar and a bottle of rust converter. I've painted on the rust converter, tomorrow ill finish cleaning the area with the wire brush and spray the weld through stuff on and weld it all up. Ill finish by sealing the area off (hopefully) with the tar. Ill fish oil everything once the cars done.
#4
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:36 PM
Top question. Agree with ^ ^ just do the best possible job you can do.
#5
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 09:15 PM
Hopefully if i can seal the area completely from moisture and drown it in fish oil im hoping i wont see it raise its ugly bubbly head <_< . I should have some progress on thursday, patch is cut to size everything just needs a good scrubbing 
. Ill post pics of the job when its done.
. Ill post pics of the job when its done.
Edited by jabba, 24 January 2006 - 09:18 PM.
#6
rodomo
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Posted 24 January 2006 - 10:50 PM
2 cans of spray fish oil went up the pillars, down the pillars, in the seat belt holes, in the quarter windor catch holes, in the hatch hinge holes and in the gap between the roof panel and rear roof brace. Also under the tail light panel where the hatch seal sits after I finished the repaiars on my son's UC hatch.
I had an Elvis slickback hairdo for a couple of days.
Next time I'll wear a hat
RACV MAN
I had an Elvis slickback hairdo for a couple of days.
Next time I'll wear a hat
RACV MAN
#7
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 06:49 AM
hahahhaha, so it gets everywhere then? I think ill wait till the final colour is on before doing mine, could be a pain to clean up for paint haha.
#8
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 06:44 PM
https://cache.gmh-to...IMAGE_00040.jpg
Patch welded in, just gotta fill a few little holes and tidy up around the edges. I think ill put a thin layer of fibre glass resin over the welds to help seal them. Slight warpage right on the line where i was welding but nothing huge, will only require a thin layer of bog to smooth it out.
<edit> i cant weld for crap either, sadly i can say its 100% better than my first repair effort
Patch welded in, just gotta fill a few little holes and tidy up around the edges. I think ill put a thin layer of fibre glass resin over the welds to help seal them. Slight warpage right on the line where i was welding but nothing huge, will only require a thin layer of bog to smooth it out.
<edit> i cant weld for crap either, sadly i can say its 100% better than my first repair effort
Edited by jabba, 25 January 2006 - 06:47 PM.
#9
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 08:02 PM
Practise, practise, practise. I won't criticise, good to see you in there having a go.
#10
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 08:15 PM
Good start there jabba, like yella said with some practice you'll get there and be doing some nice work as its not rocket science.
Here's what you can achieve with some practice and some really cool tools,
First make your patch as neat as possible following the original shape of what your trying to replace
then weld and grind to a finish that if desired could be metal finished with a file if you adventurous,
This was welded in with a $7000 brass mig with pure Argon gas, not an average home users piece of gear but its the type of welder required to weld high strength steel used in modern car construction without affecting its integrity, its great for doing rust patches in thin stuff as it welds at around 600degrees rather than the typical 1000+ degree temps with a normal mig.
This is a Hilux door i did for a top bloke, all it needed was a good sand with 100grit on a DA and a slight skim of CAM fine blade putty and she was right for the paint shop
Here's what you can achieve with some practice and some really cool tools,
First make your patch as neat as possible following the original shape of what your trying to replace
then weld and grind to a finish that if desired could be metal finished with a file if you adventurous,
This was welded in with a $7000 brass mig with pure Argon gas, not an average home users piece of gear but its the type of welder required to weld high strength steel used in modern car construction without affecting its integrity, its great for doing rust patches in thin stuff as it welds at around 600degrees rather than the typical 1000+ degree temps with a normal mig.
This is a Hilux door i did for a top bloke, all it needed was a good sand with 100grit on a DA and a slight skim of CAM fine blade putty and she was right for the paint shop
#11
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 08:21 PM
That reminds me, somebody gave me a couple of rusty LH panels to practice on. Must do that one day, as I really need the practice for the UC's.
#12
rodomo
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 09:48 PM
Weld done!
Things I have learnt along the way. Tack at intervals before welding. Don't try to continuous weld the whole thing but move around as not to overheat one area and cause warp and holes. Make your repair peice not an exact fit, e.g.half a millimeter smaller so you have a clearance all round, as the material cools it tends to pull straighter than if its a tight fit.
RACV MAN
Things I have learnt along the way. Tack at intervals before welding. Don't try to continuous weld the whole thing but move around as not to overheat one area and cause warp and holes. Make your repair peice not an exact fit, e.g.half a millimeter smaller so you have a clearance all round, as the material cools it tends to pull straighter than if its a tight fit.
RACV MAN
#13
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 10:04 PM
damn, cant even see that its even had a repair 
. I dont mind criticism, if people dont point out what im doing wrong then i wont learn how to do it right 
. I only consider this practice anyway, the doors are pritty crap so if i did stuff them there not a huge loss and the car isnt going to be a show car i've just always wanted a monaro street car and cant afford a pre-built one 
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. I dont mind criticism, if people dont point out what im doing wrong then i wont learn how to do it right . I only consider this practice anyway, the doors are pritty crap so if i did stuff them there not a huge loss and the car isnt going to be a show car i've just always wanted a monaro street car and cant afford a pre-built one .
#14
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 10:23 PM
I think it will be more beneficial if you ask questions, and peeps here can advise why it's happened. Should stay a bit more under control that way, and avoid too much bagging out. Don't want you to get discouraged. Unfortunately the disappointments with panel work usually come once you paint it.
I went to tech and learnt at night. Noticed that there is a Gregory's book on panel repair and another on spray painting. Damn good books those, they are another good source of info.
Just note down your frustrations, and post em.
I went to tech and learnt at night. Noticed that there is a Gregory's book on panel repair and another on spray painting. Damn good books those, they are another good source of info.
Just note down your frustrations, and post em.
#15
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 10:30 PM
The most anoying would be the warpage on the seam im welding... Its getting sucked down a few mm's no matter how carful i am .
.
#16
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 10:50 PM
Jabba, definately dont get discouraged, panel work only improves with practice and more tools and determination.
You'll always have some movement of the seam as your welding thats why your patch becomes important (too tight a gap it will buckle, too loose a gap and you'll blow holes and need to fill them causing warpage due to the heat) If you can get in behind what your welding with a dolly keep hammering the seam flat as you go that way you'll be able to minimise warpage.
Use as many clamps (vise grips etc) as you can fit in to hold the patch securely in place, its a bit hard to do when your welding a door corner patch in but still you can't have too much support.
If you want to cool your welds while you go i prefer compressed air to blow over the top of it, some people prefer a wet rag but i like to not introduce moisture into what im doing if it can be avoided (i also think it cools it too fast causing brittleness).
Keep at it mate, its only steel, if your not happy with it you can always cut it out and weld another patch in................try doing that with wood for example .............steel is fun
You'll always have some movement of the seam as your welding thats why your patch becomes important (too tight a gap it will buckle, too loose a gap and you'll blow holes and need to fill them causing warpage due to the heat) If you can get in behind what your welding with a dolly keep hammering the seam flat as you go that way you'll be able to minimise warpage.
Use as many clamps (vise grips etc) as you can fit in to hold the patch securely in place, its a bit hard to do when your welding a door corner patch in but still you can't have too much support.
If you want to cool your welds while you go i prefer compressed air to blow over the top of it, some people prefer a wet rag but i like to not introduce moisture into what im doing if it can be avoided (i also think it cools it too fast causing brittleness).
Keep at it mate, its only steel, if your not happy with it you can always cut it out and weld another patch in................try doing that with wood for example
.............steel is fun
#17
shanegtr
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Posted 26 January 2006 - 03:03 AM
Im going to be due to start the rust repairs soon. Just waiting on a quote to get the new panels sent up here then I'm away. I'll make sure I post up a few pics and I'm sure gonna beasking a few questions later
#18
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 26 January 2006 - 06:10 AM
Dolly as you weld. Weld a little, dolly a little. Not too much as you may stretch the metal. It's all about not getting too much heat in the panel, spot in every inch or so first, then no long welds. Weld a little, wait till the orange goes out of it, bit more, same, bit more, same (constant on off the gun technique, bit like pulsing a fixed speed hand drill for large size drill bits). Can use wet rag to reduce heat expansion, I note the above post about air ---> interesting.The most anoying would be the warpage on the seam im welding... Its getting sucked down a few mm's no matter how carful i am
Interestingly enough, I do my patches around the other way. Make the patch panel first to the correct shape/size, put it on the panel, mark it, then cut the panel to suit the patch Cutting disk/air hacksaw/width of pencil provides the gap to keep the tension in the panel.
#19
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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:28 AM
thanks guys, ill keep that all in mind when i tackle the rust at the back of this door . I defenatly dont have many tools, im just buying them as i go (and when i can afford to hehe). Ill go buy a hammer and dolly set today, i've been meaning to just havent yet .
. I defenatly dont have many tools, im just buying them as i go (and when i can afford to hehe). Ill go buy a hammer and dolly set today, i've been meaning to just havent yet .
#20
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Posted 26 January 2006 - 04:15 PM
Jabba,
I found with my LJ the best way was to weld a small amount and then cool the area immediately with a wet rag this stopped all warpage and shrinkage. Try welding a little at the top and then cool it a little at the bottom and then cool it a little in the middle and cool it. It takes longer but it saves having to shrink back the panel to make it tight again.
Cheers,
I found with my LJ the best way was to weld a small amount and then cool the area immediately with a wet rag this stopped all warpage and shrinkage. Try welding a little at the top and then cool it a little at the bottom and then cool it a little in the middle and cool it. It takes longer but it saves having to shrink back the panel to make it tight again.
Cheers,
#21
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Posted 26 January 2006 - 04:56 PM
Yep the wet rage trick worked great, i got hardly any warpage this time with the repair on the rear of the door . I just put a spot cooled it moved an inch put a spot cooled it etc etc. I filled the inside of the repair with tar, later when the door is finished i think ill fill all the overlapping panels with tar to stop water getting in there again. Its still not a pritty repair but it should do the jobbie.
. I just put a spot cooled it moved an inch put a spot cooled it etc etc. I filled the inside of the repair with tar, later when the door is finished i think ill fill all the overlapping panels with tar to stop water getting in there again. Its still not a pritty repair but it should do the jobbie.
Edited by jabba, 26 January 2006 - 04:57 PM.
#22
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Posted 31 January 2006 - 08:45 PM
I got a tip from a mate at work, he said turn the volts up fairly high (i was using 2 - 3, i set it to 4) and wire speed down a touch... Now the welds are actually penitrating properly, before they just looked like they were sitting on top of the metal. Im also not having any problems with blowouts now, the spot welds are coming out alot neater now 
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