Soon I will slot a new 6 in my car and was wondering how much power an aussie 4 speed and banjo LSD will handle? I am looking at 240hp at the fly for new motor and I not sure if drivetrain will cope. My last motor was good for 14.7 on the quarter with aussie 4 and course spline lsd and I never had a failure with this combo in 9 years/100,000 km of driving. I am pretty easy going as a driver, hence the 0 failure rate for course spline axles but not sure if new engine will break this record.
How much HP can M20 handle
Started by
_gtrtorana_
, Jul 27 2007 10:19 PM
21 replies to this topic
#2
_rorym_
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Posted 27 July 2007 - 11:04 PM
I am running 260/280bhp...no worries..but you can break anything...all about your driving style.
R
R
#3
_CraigA_
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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:43 AM
Mine has about 250-260 FWHP (14.3 sec 1/4) and uses M20/3.08 fine spline banjo LSD and seems to cope OK, and I'm not that friendly to it :-)
The clutch is my biggest drama, using ceramic but still get some shuddery slip under full power changes.
Cheers,
Craig.
The clutch is my biggest drama, using ceramic but still get some shuddery slip under full power changes.
Cheers,
Craig.
Edited by CraigA, 28 July 2007 - 09:46 AM.
#4
_70rey_
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Posted 29 July 2007 - 06:34 PM
if your worried get ur gearbox rebuilt.
i got mine rebuilt with mazda sir clips and what not. and im expecting a heap of horses from my 6.
i got mine rebuilt with mazda sir clips and what not. and im expecting a heap of horses from my 6.
#5
_gtrtorana_
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Posted 30 July 2007 - 07:56 AM
I rebuilt box about 10,000kms ago. Just re-opened it last night and it still looks brand new. I think my weakest link will be my course spline axles. I have 2 spare axles, will see how long they last.
#6
_Drag lc_
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 10:36 AM
gtr torana, not sure on banjo, but we have run into the 12's @ 105mph with a m22 and i just hold it on the limiter (7,000) and step of the clutch with 8" wide slics on the rear in a full weight lc we are running a N.P.C. clutch and 9" and we have run 2 full meets and still not failed.
Thanks Hayden
Thanks Hayden
#7
rodomo
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 11:33 AM
The weak spot in the Aussies is the rear cluster needle rollers and hardening wearing through on first gear on the cluster after the needle rollers have collapsed. This runs the gears slightly out of mesh and the hardening suffers.
If you can stop yourself from thrashing it in the lower gears, it will give good service providing its a good box to begin with.
Remember they were behind 308's as well.
If you can stop yourself from thrashing it in the lower gears, it will give good service providing its a good box to begin with.
Remember they were behind 308's as well.
#8
_gtrtorana_
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Posted 05 August 2007 - 07:11 PM
When I rebuilt my g-box, I found a fare amount of wear on the lay shaft/needle rollers. I rebuilt box 10,000 kms ago so by the replys recieved, as long as I remember to take it easy when changing in the lower gears, I should be right. By the sounds of things, I will have more trouble with my course spline diff and axles than the box. Thanks for info. Next question may need another topic, how much to change from banjo rear end to VN commodore rear end with BW78 diff?
#9
_waratah_
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Posted 29 July 2008 - 11:37 AM
We've blown 2 m20's behind a 308 now.The weak spot in the Aussies is the rear cluster needle rollers and hardening wearing through on first gear on the cluster after the needle rollers have collapsed. This runs the gears slightly out of mesh and the hardening suffers.
If you can stop yourself from thrashing it in the lower gears, it will give good service providing its a good box to begin with.
Remember they were behind 308's as well.
Pulled the second one down yesterday after removing from car.
We stripped 3rd gear on both.
We only use 2nd for take off, no use of first at all, on track its 3rd and 4th only.
after losing third in the First we parked ASAP and only the damage was left at 3rd gear stripped.
The 2nd one we done a few more laps and disintegrated the front bearing losing all gears but top.
Had m20's behind quick 253's and they handle the same racing conditions
#10
orangeLJ
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Posted 29 July 2008 - 11:49 AM
When I rebuilt my g-box, I found a fare amount of wear on the lay shaft/needle rollers. I rebuilt box 10,000 kms ago so by the replys recieved, as long as I remember to take it easy when changing in the lower gears, I should be right. By the sounds of things, I will have more trouble with my course spline diff and axles than the box. Thanks for info. Next question may need another topic, how much to change from banjo rear end to VN commodore rear end with BW78 diff?
The VN commodore rear end "should" be a relatively straight forward job. The only major drama i can see with it, is the setting of the new brackets once the old ones have been taken off. If they are not set 100% (or close enough) to square the rear will be out of line, and could cause handling trouble, not to mention extra stress on the chassis.
I plan to give it a go in the next 12 months with a disc brake LSD from a VN calais. Hopefully you do it first so i can see what could go wrong! hahah!
#11
myss427
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Posted 29 July 2008 - 12:38 PM
In the A9X we rebuilt the box with a bronze shaft and removed the needle rollers, had all the gears shot peened and the larger circlips put in. Been told it will take 400 horses if you baby it.
#12
fuzzypumper
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Posted 03 August 2008 - 08:54 PM
Long time ago, my brother had a 253 built by Gown Hindhaugh which had a power band that exploded from 3000rpm like a 2 stroke motorbike and used to lift the front corner of the bonnet when it came in. We never new how much power or torque it had, but it did chew out a coarse spline axle until we converted the centre to fine spline and it was OK .
It also busted the front bearing of the M20 twice which I cant say we resolved because he sold the car before it happened again.
It also busted the front bearing of the M20 twice which I cant say we resolved because he sold the car before it happened again.
#13
_Brad1979UC_
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Posted 04 August 2008 - 01:34 AM
mm to an extent i agree with rorym. the way you drive it will defiantly have an effect on how long its going to last. My M20 was fine when it went in with the 202. Now after about 11 months of use...its a daily, 1 and 2nd gears are a bit dodgy sometimes. Now this could be that its time for a reco, but its behind a estimated 125rwhp 202 ...so i dont think its the 6 but i am really not very forgiving to my gbox, and i think skids around corners in the dry in 2nd has stuffed my 2nd gear, i really do think it has alot to do with how you drive it, id have to say i give it a shalacking 3-4 times a day, and shes a daily xD. The salisbury is up to the task though!
...so i dont think its the 6 but i am really not very forgiving to my gbox, and i think skids around corners in the dry in 2nd has stuffed my 2nd gear, i really do think it has alot to do with how you drive it, id have to say i give it a shalacking 3-4 times a day, and shes a daily xD. The salisbury is up to the task though!
#14
Posted 04 August 2008 - 02:38 PM
Mine has about 260-270 seems fine
just make sure that you use a really good quality oil in the box
Redline Blue would be about the best
cheers
peter
just make sure that you use a really good quality oil in the box
Redline Blue would be about the best
cheers
peter
#15
_The Stig_
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Posted 04 August 2008 - 06:33 PM
I've busted a couple of M20's behind 308's. Never had a problem with a 6. It's torque that breaks things, not horsepower. Both the ones I've broken, and most broken ones I've seen have stripped the teeth off the input shaft and cluster drive gears. Probably all stems back from worn layshaft and/or bearings tho...Mine has about 260-270 seems fine
just make sure that you use a really good quality oil in the box
Redline Blue would be about the best
cheers
peter
#16
_ljharbsy_
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Posted 07 August 2008 - 10:28 PM
Hey all,
Interesting reading, I build these buggers all the time, the best you can do with them is machine some more oil clearance under the 1st gear area only in the middle to allow more oil flow they tend to glue 1st gear to the mainshaft, get the second gear circlip machined to take the same size circlip as the one used on the input shaf bearing, as for the cluster wear get it resleeved, if you don't this will just add extra metal to the box, also use sealed bearings, this helps with wear. You can also machine the selector side plate so 2nd gear hits right in, other than that if you want to use a GM 4 speed go to a Muncie box, they are aluminium cases and much lighter than the saginaw and a bit stronger.
Steve
Interesting reading, I build these buggers all the time, the best you can do with them is machine some more oil clearance under the 1st gear area only in the middle to allow more oil flow they tend to glue 1st gear to the mainshaft, get the second gear circlip machined to take the same size circlip as the one used on the input shaf bearing, as for the cluster wear get it resleeved, if you don't this will just add extra metal to the box, also use sealed bearings, this helps with wear. You can also machine the selector side plate so 2nd gear hits right in, other than that if you want to use a GM 4 speed go to a Muncie box, they are aluminium cases and much lighter than the saginaw and a bit stronger.
Steve
#17
gtrboyy
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Posted 09 August 2008 - 07:54 AM
My old six did a 13.1 at old eastern creek track,probably had a 12 in it with a m20 that my mate rebuilt which I still have,lasted years.Never did rev dumps or flat changes so that sure helped it live,did go through many banjo diffs.Did have a 'rebuilt' m20 from a so called g/box rebuilder,barely lasted a month after taking it back the second time.
You can get the b/w diffs & gears cheaply.make sure it's a 28 spline diff...getting the lsd centres is not so cheap though.I think the b/w diff cost me $7-$800 when I got it done for my lc.
You can get the b/w diffs & gears cheaply.make sure it's a 28 spline diff...getting the lsd centres is not so cheap though.I think the b/w diff cost me $7-$800 when I got it done for my lc.
#18
TerrA LX
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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:44 AM
Ya know paris hilton, well thats how bad M20's suck IMO
#19
_gtrtorana_
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Posted 09 August 2008 - 11:43 AM
Thanks for your productive input to my questionYa know paris hilton, well thats how bad M20's suck IMO
To everyone else, interesting reading, Thanks.
#20
_Chriskoss-79uc_
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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:45 PM
Mate it will handle anything!
Sometimes I go out when im pissed off and give the old M20 a thrashing.. double clutching and fourth to 1st gear in a second. Who gives a shit. Torana's are built to last!
Sometimes I go out when im pissed off and give the old M20 a thrashing.. double clutching and fourth to 1st gear in a second. Who gives a shit. Torana's are built to last!
#21
Collo
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Posted 10 August 2008 - 12:13 AM
Ya know paris hilton, well thats how bad M20's suck IMO
I thought she sucked pretty good...but thats all she did well.
Mate it will handle anything!
Sometimes I go out when im pissed off and give the old M20 a thrashing.. double clutching and fourth to 1st gear in a second. Who gives a shit. Torana's are built to last!
Now do it in a kingswood, same drive train....
#22
TerrA LX
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Posted 10 August 2008 - 02:08 PM
I thought she sucked pretty good...but thats all she did well.
Yeah, they both suck.
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