Heyaz... just wanting some input on which paint do you all think would be best for me to use??
Ok I have a small understanding of how painting works but Ive pretty much only used pressure pack cans and done a lil bit of bogging etc...
What are the pro's and cons of each type of paint?
As far as I know 2-pack is easier to f*ck up when your spraying but is hell of a lot less afterwork (cutting/buffing) and Acrylic is alot easier to fix up any mistakes but alot harder to get a really good shine..
I know 2-pak is poisoness and all that and I would hire a proper booth and get the proper safety gear if i was to do it... but that is another Con I suppose
Depending on price to hire a booth Id probly just rig up the shed as a spray booth and paint in that...
So yes... Please, Discuss
Acrylic or 2-Pak
Started by
_Viper_
, Nov 10 2007 07:39 PM
26 replies to this topic
#2
Toranavista
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Posted 10 November 2007 - 08:42 PM
If you end up with some parking dents in the future 2 pack will be your friend. much easier to manipulate for paintless dent removal.
#3
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 10 November 2007 - 08:55 PM
^ but less easy to touch up, need to respray whole panel. Mind you this is starting to change with the newer 2-packs.
Acrylic will give a deeper shine, especially with clear coat. Top show painters still use acrylic for the deeper shine.
Acrylic will give a deeper shine, especially with clear coat. Top show painters still use acrylic for the deeper shine.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 10 November 2007 - 08:55 PM.
#4
_Rally hatch_
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Posted 10 November 2007 - 08:59 PM
If it's a good car...Pay a little extra and get some one that knows what they are doing to paint it....
Both are easy to "F@#K UP"
If you don't know What you're doing the finished job will look shit and you'll be unhappy with the job and wasted alot of money on paint etc. Quite often the car will look worse than it did before you started.
Ask around and find a spray painter or pannel beater to do it on the side for you, either at your place or theirs.They will prob be able to get you the paint cheaper than you could and they would prob "pinch/borrow" the other stuff like hardeners, reducers etc from their work, this alone would save you a fortune.
I've known some of them to only charge a couple of hundred bucks, depending on what you want.
There is so much more to spray painting than just pulling a trigger on a gun.
Just ask around
Both are easy to "F@#K UP"
If you don't know What you're doing the finished job will look shit and you'll be unhappy with the job and wasted alot of money on paint etc. Quite often the car will look worse than it did before you started.
Ask around and find a spray painter or pannel beater to do it on the side for you, either at your place or theirs.They will prob be able to get you the paint cheaper than you could and they would prob "pinch/borrow" the other stuff like hardeners, reducers etc from their work, this alone would save you a fortune.
I've known some of them to only charge a couple of hundred bucks, depending on what you want.
There is so much more to spray painting than just pulling a trigger on a gun.
Just ask around
#5
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 10 November 2007 - 09:05 PM
^ ooh, sounds like not a good experience.
Yup it takes time, and your first 3-4 jobs will turn out like crap. For the best results, attempt a whole car as it give you heaps more time to play with gun settings, pressure settings and paint thinning.
If you can't see the other side of the shed, you got too much air pressure.
Hope it all goes good. I prefer acrylic as you can do it at home, and is fairly forgiving, i.e. can be repaired. Having said that though, it suffers from shrink back so go to 1200 grit before painting. So your prep has to be that little bit better, and also needs to be blocked after (also time consuming). Watch out for edges and ridges when blocking or your gonna go through the paint. Also keep buffer moist, or your gonna burn the paint.
If you can afford it pay somebody to do it for you, but if your up for a challenge, have a go yourself. End result is very satisfying......mmmm shiny smooth stuff.
If your gonna have a go, Supercheap, an prolly other automotive shops, have a book called "Spray Painting". There is also a companion book called "Panel Work/Beating". Have a read, they are very thorough.
At the end of the day, if you can do it yourself, you are always gonna do a more thorough job than somebody working on hourly rates.
Yup it takes time, and your first 3-4 jobs will turn out like crap. For the best results, attempt a whole car as it give you heaps more time to play with gun settings, pressure settings and paint thinning.
If you can't see the other side of the shed, you got too much air pressure.
Hope it all goes good. I prefer acrylic as you can do it at home, and is fairly forgiving, i.e. can be repaired. Having said that though, it suffers from shrink back so go to 1200 grit before painting. So your prep has to be that little bit better, and also needs to be blocked after (also time consuming). Watch out for edges and ridges when blocking or your gonna go through the paint. Also keep buffer moist, or your gonna burn the paint.
If you can afford it pay somebody to do it for you, but if your up for a challenge, have a go yourself. End result is very satisfying......mmmm shiny smooth stuff.
If your gonna have a go, Supercheap, an prolly other automotive shops, have a book called "Spray Painting". There is also a companion book called "Panel Work/Beating". Have a read, they are very thorough.
At the end of the day, if you can do it yourself, you are always gonna do a more thorough job than somebody working on hourly rates.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 10 November 2007 - 09:08 PM.
#6
_Rally hatch_
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Posted 10 November 2007 - 10:01 PM
Nah... Just been in the game a while and seen it all before..^ ooh, sounds like not a good experience.
#7
TerrA LX
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 03:51 AM
I started out with acrylic and progressed to 2K and have done a few cars but will be going back to acrylic for my next car.
2K kills you, is harder to fix if it don't come straight off the gun and is a total pain to clean up.
Acrylic is much more home user friendly IMO.
2K kills you, is harder to fix if it don't come straight off the gun and is a total pain to clean up.
Acrylic is much more home user friendly IMO.
#8
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 05:23 AM
Mate, in short, im an amateur spray painter.
Translation, i work as a spray painter, and i paint like a tradesman, but im just a laborer.
Start out with acrylic. Then go to 2k later on.
Acrylic is nearly impossible to screw up. 2k can leave you crying.
Translation, i work as a spray painter, and i paint like a tradesman, but im just a laborer.
Start out with acrylic. Then go to 2k later on.
Acrylic is nearly impossible to screw up. 2k can leave you crying.
#9
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 09:27 AM
Sorry for the thread steal, but this means I should go Acrylic on the LJ? I've been thinking about this for a while too...
Tim
Tim
#10
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 11:03 AM
Yes 2 pack you need the ratio of paint to hardener just right. Not sure if there are also correction factors for temperature. If there are, they are probably hard to find, as most 2 pack is done in heat controlled booths.
#11
_TJ253_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 01:32 PM
Talking Paint Anyone here From NSW that has Exp Painting cars and wanna do a LH?
#12
_MYLJ_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 01:39 PM
you might want to narrow it down a bitTalking Paint Anyone here From NSW that has Exp Painting cars and wanna do a LH?
NSW is a fairly big state you know 
I'm near Albury btw
#13
_TJ253_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 01:48 PM
Im Near Newcastle car is registerd so i dont mind traveling a Little
#14
_Viper_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 04:47 PM
Well its just my lil Gemini Coupe, And was in abit of a ding but Ive replaced the panels but yea needs a paintjob...
Im not expecting it to be a awesome paintjob for my first time, But I want to learn how to do it and have the satisfaction of doing it myself, I can afford to pay someone but $3000 paint job on a car which cost me $400? and whers the fun in that.
Looks like ill be giving Acylic a Stab, Ill get a hold of those books Yella, Cheers
Im not expecting it to be a awesome paintjob for my first time, But I want to learn how to do it and have the satisfaction of doing it myself, I can afford to pay someone but $3000 paint job on a car which cost me $400? and whers the fun in that.
Looks like ill be giving Acylic a Stab, Ill get a hold of those books Yella, Cheers
#15
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 05:28 PM
Thats not terribly difficult.Yes 2 pack you need the ratio of paint to hardener just right. Not sure if there are also correction factors for temperature. If there are, they are probably hard to find, as most 2 pack is done in heat controlled booths.
Most COB systems have a base coat that does not require catalyzing, and then the clear coat is mixed 2-1. You get paint mixing cups from your paint supply store that have all the grades on them. Single stage paint colors (no clear coat) you just mix them 2-1. Unless you use an industrial 2k, there usually 4-1, same as most 2k undercoats.
Yes heat does make a difference. Should be sprayed at around 60 deg c. A little trick i was told that im going to try shortly when i paint my new bike is to put the mixed pot of paint in a tub of boiling water just before putting it into the gun to raise the temp.
Now i just had a though, if you want to have a crack at a fairly user friendly 2k, that can be made shiny off the gun, is tough, forgiving, and fairly long lasting, try an industrial paint. When i respray my ute sometime early next year im going to use Protec 609. Thats all i use at work, and were painting drill rigs. Thats a fairly tough test for the paint, and it usually comes back fairly good. There all single stage though, so you cant have metallics or pearls or anything. Just strait colors.
That said, i still recommend you try acrylic for your first go. Just about any f*ck ups can be buffed out.
Edited by Bomber Watson, 11 November 2007 - 05:29 PM.
#16
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 07:29 PM
Yes heat does make a difference. Should be sprayed at around 60 deg c.
Are you sure you havent got your temps around the wrong way Bomber?? We spray 2K in the booth at around 28deg C and BAKE between 60-80deg C depending on personal preference.
I don't think the average painter in a paint suit could get around a respray on a whole car if its 60degC in there without passing out!!
Start with the books Viper, search online as there is plenty of information of all kinds out there, ask plenty of questions, and get in there and give it a go.
Use Acrylic Lacquer as this will be the most forgiving and cheapest alternative in regards to equipment etc.
Meticulous attention to detail, quality materials and the best possible preparation will yeild a decent result you can be proud of. Doesn't matter how good you are etc someone will always mouth off something bad about your work as it's easy to judge so keep at it and BE PATIENT. Take the extra time to try and make it right.
Edited by Pete, 11 November 2007 - 07:31 PM.
#17
brocks72xu1
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 07:38 PM
as a tradesman i have done over twenty show cars and i strongly disagree
using arcylic paint with clear over the top , if you know what you are doing ,you
can 100 times a better job using 2k than arcylic and to get the depth in solid colours with 2k again you got to know the tricks you slowly reduce colour to clear ratio ,you guys have to remember that arcylic is porous and 2k isnt
i have over twenty years in the trade (not including my training) and have done alot of award winning harleys for local bike groups and trust me they are more pickythan car onwers, but look after you better than car onwers,dollar wise
if you know the product you dont have to paint full panels it comes down to tricks of the trade
using arcylic paint with clear over the top , if you know what you are doing ,you
can 100 times a better job using 2k than arcylic and to get the depth in solid colours with 2k again you got to know the tricks you slowly reduce colour to clear ratio ,you guys have to remember that arcylic is porous and 2k isnt
i have over twenty years in the trade (not including my training) and have done alot of award winning harleys for local bike groups and trust me they are more pickythan car onwers, but look after you better than car onwers,dollar wise
if you know the product you dont have to paint full panels it comes down to tricks of the trade
#18
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 08:59 PM
Damb alcohol (yes i started early today, and im actually sober now lol)Yes heat does make a difference. Should be sprayed at around 60 deg c.
Are you sure you havent got your temps around the wrong way Bomber?? We spray 2K in the booth at around 28deg C and BAKE between 60-80deg C depending on personal preference.
Am keen to try the paint in the hot water trick though, see what happens. Dont really get a chance at work as im painting drilling rigs, but gonna be spraying my new bike soon so will try it with that
.Cheers.
#19
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 11 November 2007 - 09:03 PM
How true is that? But none beats the satisfaction that only you really know where the stuff ups really are!!!Doesn't matter how good you are etc someone will always mouth off something bad about your work as it's easy to judge so keep at it and BE PATIENT. Take the extra time to try and make it right.
Oh don't worry bout the books too much. Just get in and have a go, and expect a few learning experiences (stuff ups) to start with. Factor that in.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 11 November 2007 - 09:04 PM.
#20
_Rally hatch_
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Posted 14 November 2007 - 07:48 PM
Preparation is the key... if you take short cuts in the prep, they will show up even worse in the finished job 
Start small.... do a small area at a time (repairs and prep I mean) other wise it'll all get on top of you.
Start small.... do a small area at a time (repairs and prep I mean) other wise it'll all get on top of you.
#21
_rhysandhisLJ_
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Posted 15 November 2007 - 07:50 AM
G'day Viper,
I've just painted my first car, it's my lx sedan which i've painted a custom green acrylic colour.
As rally hatch has said preparation is the key.. i had a small dent on my roof which i bogged up and sanded back before painting, i mustn't have sanded it back properly and the edges can just be seen after she's been painted.
I have five coats of colour, then one coat of colour/clear, and then one coat of clear on it and it look pretty damn good and shiny. I still haven't cut and polished it yet, but i will in the near future. I've been told this will remove a few little bits of overspray that occured during the spraying of the roof. First do some practice on a spare panel you have lying around... best way to learn!
Good luck mate,
Rhys.
I've just painted my first car, it's my lx sedan which i've painted a custom green acrylic colour.
As rally hatch has said preparation is the key.. i had a small dent on my roof which i bogged up and sanded back before painting, i mustn't have sanded it back properly and the edges can just be seen after she's been painted.
I have five coats of colour, then one coat of colour/clear, and then one coat of clear on it and it look pretty damn good and shiny. I still haven't cut and polished it yet, but i will in the near future. I've been told this will remove a few little bits of overspray that occured during the spraying of the roof. First do some practice on a spare panel you have lying around... best way to learn!
Good luck mate,
Rhys.
#22
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 15 November 2007 - 10:00 AM
If you can scrap together the money then pay someone to paint your car in two pack. Two pack is far superior to acrylic but does require a booth and a professional.
http://oldholden.com...crylic_Vs_2_Pak
http://oldholden.com...crylic_Vs_2_Pak
#23
_gtr161s_
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Posted 17 November 2007 - 05:49 PM
just hit my car with 6 coats of clear over the acrylic and compared to my friends 2pac mine is alot shinier and appears deeper in appearance.
I will give it a light rub with 1500 then buff but it should look a million bucks, and even better it was sprayed in my garage.
I will give it a light rub with 1500 then buff but it should look a million bucks, and even better it was sprayed in my garage.
#24
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 17 November 2007 - 06:33 PM
^ Acrylic, even though it looks reasonable off the gun, needs to be blocked and buffed to get the full lustre. Once you've done that, the finish just won't compare, although be mindful that you may damage some areas.
#25
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 17 November 2007 - 06:35 PM
Happy moment today. I found some runs in factory paint!!!! It's nice to know that they are human as well.
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