I am interested to find out if there were any other changes to the LC GTR from July 1971 - January 1972 aside from the engine change from 161s prefix 2600s to 173s prefix CF and introduction of M20 gearbox over the Opel.
We have very extensive posts on, what makes a 71, 72 or 73 Bathurst XU1 and LC GTR with 161s and LJ GTR 202 are covered in depth everywhere in literature. It appears that the July 1971 - January 1972 LC GTR 173s is the forgotten version of the performance Torana's of the era.
Therefore a few questions I propose??
1. How many of these car are still in existence??
2. Any other notable differences than the egines and gearbox??
3. Are they more valuable than your common variety 161s??
4. What would a LC GTR with original 173s be worth??
5. Any revision in suspension??
6. Colour exterior/interior options??
7. Steering changes??
What makes a Jul 1971 LC GTR
Started by
GTRXU1
, Dec 26 2007 02:03 AM
13 replies to this topic
#1
GTRXU1
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 02:03 AM
#2
_finer70_
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 06:26 AM
One other change was that the accelerator pedal is the same as LJ.
#3
Dr Terry
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 06:39 AM
Hi GTRXU1.
You use the phrase 'introduction of the M20 over the Opel'. I know what you mean, but the problem is that the Opel & the Aussie 4-speed are both refered to as PO M20. It is less ambiguous to call them Opels & Aussie 4-speeds.
To answer your questions.
1. Impossible to say how many are left, but not many in original condition. 647 were originally built according to Bazza's count off the microfiche. There were 5,923 161S GTRs made according to the same count.
2. There would be lots of minor changes, but the notable ones are that the console & gearshift knob are also altered.
3. Value is difficult to calculate, but depends heavily on condition & originality & how much the buyer wants to pay.
4. LC GTRs of both types in good original condition are both rare, so I don't think that one type is worth more than the other.
5. There were one or two revisions in suspension during the LC model run, but I don't think any coincided with the change to 173S.
6. Once again paint & trim changed during the LC model run, but to my knowledge not exactly at that time. There was a new colour chart issued in Nov '71, this is when Taormina Aqua was released
7. Ditto.
What you have to remember about the 161S/173S changeover is that it only happened because of the change in the engine/trans line-up in the HQ series, which was introduced in July 1971. The engine/trans change was done like any other running change. It wasn't done as part of a major mid-model revision.
One other thing while I'm at it. I'm not 100% certain that the 173S & Aussie 4-speed were introduced at exactly the same time. There may be 1 or 2 LC GTRs that have an Aussie 4-sp behind a 161S or an Opel behind a 173S. Forum member GM3300 may know more about this one.
Dr Terry.
You use the phrase 'introduction of the M20 over the Opel'. I know what you mean, but the problem is that the Opel & the Aussie 4-speed are both refered to as PO M20. It is less ambiguous to call them Opels & Aussie 4-speeds.
To answer your questions.
1. Impossible to say how many are left, but not many in original condition. 647 were originally built according to Bazza's count off the microfiche. There were 5,923 161S GTRs made according to the same count.
2. There would be lots of minor changes, but the notable ones are that the console & gearshift knob are also altered.
3. Value is difficult to calculate, but depends heavily on condition & originality & how much the buyer wants to pay.
4. LC GTRs of both types in good original condition are both rare, so I don't think that one type is worth more than the other.
5. There were one or two revisions in suspension during the LC model run, but I don't think any coincided with the change to 173S.
6. Once again paint & trim changed during the LC model run, but to my knowledge not exactly at that time. There was a new colour chart issued in Nov '71, this is when Taormina Aqua was released
7. Ditto.
What you have to remember about the 161S/173S changeover is that it only happened because of the change in the engine/trans line-up in the HQ series, which was introduced in July 1971. The engine/trans change was done like any other running change. It wasn't done as part of a major mid-model revision.
One other thing while I'm at it. I'm not 100% certain that the 173S & Aussie 4-speed were introduced at exactly the same time. There may be 1 or 2 LC GTRs that have an Aussie 4-sp behind a 161S or an Opel behind a 173S. Forum member GM3300 may know more about this one.
Dr Terry.
#4
dpz
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Posted 26 December 2007 - 08:49 AM
...the manifold ended up having the two mounting protrusions deleted...
(I have however seen inconsistencies in pics)
...obviously the carby and manifold part numbers are different
(I have however seen inconsistencies in pics)
...obviously the carby and manifold part numbers are different
#5
_gm3300_
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:44 AM
Hi All,
Dr Terry is correct, some of the initial production of 2850S GTR's had Opel 4 speeds fitted, LoneO'ranger on the forum bought his car new like this.
Some other changes were:
1. The heater hoses were now routed along the passenger side of the engine bay, rather than over the rocker cover, which required the use of a special inlet hose part # 2822690 to connect the rear manifold fitting to the heater. This also required the removal of the bosses behind the hose fitting.
2. The accelerator return spring was attached to the rear hole in the battery tray, and the spring bracket deleted, this was to clear the revised heater hose postion.
3. Initial production cars used the round top type, big nut master cylinder.
It's important to consider what was happening at the time, with the release of the HQ series most of the resources would have been focused on that event, and that parts like gearbox's etc would have been given priority to that series.
Grant
Dr Terry is correct, some of the initial production of 2850S GTR's had Opel 4 speeds fitted, LoneO'ranger on the forum bought his car new like this.
Some other changes were:
1. The heater hoses were now routed along the passenger side of the engine bay, rather than over the rocker cover, which required the use of a special inlet hose part # 2822690 to connect the rear manifold fitting to the heater. This also required the removal of the bosses behind the hose fitting.
2. The accelerator return spring was attached to the rear hole in the battery tray, and the spring bracket deleted, this was to clear the revised heater hose postion.
3. Initial production cars used the round top type, big nut master cylinder.
It's important to consider what was happening at the time, with the release of the HQ series most of the resources would have been focused on that event, and that parts like gearbox's etc would have been given priority to that series.
Grant
#6
_blkwatch_
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Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:35 PM
Add Me..... Mine still exist 7/71 brisbane car with new colour for 71 blackwatch green although in need of paint and trim/ collecting dust in the garage but its safe .
cheers
cheers
#7
GTR-1
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 07:13 AM
Add me to..... 7/71 Adelaide car in Phantom Grey sold by Dealer 544 in December 71. First Registered in Auckland, NZ 4-12-73Add Me..... Mine still exist 7/71 brisbane car with new colour for 71 blackwatch green although in need of paint and trim/ collecting dust in the garage but its safe .
cheers
#8
GTRXU1
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 07:10 PM
Suppose your cars did not come with a wooden gear knob did they??
Refer to other post for picture please re: 71 Jul > LC GTR
Refer to other post for picture please re: 71 Jul > LC GTR
#9
_tuffgong_
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 10:23 PM
there is a rally red gtr 7-71 brissy built sitting under a pattio on the north side of taree with is original heart, i have a beer with the bloke every time i pass through and batter him to sell the car to me, one day he will. by the way these motors are not that un-common thay where given to hg holdens to youi all should know.
cheers john
cheers john
#10
_Wangman_
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 10:32 PM
My uncle told me about a bloke that has a gtr in taree, and has been offered a few times by the same person to sell his gtr, once with a large sum of money and a trailer waiting outside his house. sounds familiar tuffgong? hahaha
#11
_dave720gtr_
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Posted 28 December 2007 - 11:43 PM
my freinds lc gtr is bis built late 71 loneranger black trim all though it has xu1 ops and 186s 
#12
_tuffgong_
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Posted 29 December 2007 - 08:46 AM
thats the one wangman.
cheers john
cheers john
#13
_tuffgong_
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Posted 29 December 2007 - 08:51 AM
and i know of a 7-71 plumdinger at petri just up the road, i have offered him 45k but no way so far, he also has my number.
cheers john
cheers john
#14
_LoneOranger_
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Posted 29 December 2007 - 09:24 AM
Just thought I'd add a little here.
The accellerator pedal in my car was the LC type, to the floor.
The gearshift knob was black.
Perhaps the known owners of these cars posting here can clarify this.
Hopefully with some pics.
GM3300 is right about the engine bay changes.
From the only pic I have of the engine bay, when the car was new, he is correct.
Also, there was no reference to engine size anywhere.
There was no decal on the rocker cover like the pic in the add (seperate post), just plain chrome.
The air filter decal only had the blue and red band, with the 2600S section now being clear. It did not say 2850S.
Bazza or Grant, Would either of you know if the vehicles original colour can be known from the production number?
You can PM me if you like.
John.
The accellerator pedal in my car was the LC type, to the floor.
The gearshift knob was black.
Perhaps the known owners of these cars posting here can clarify this.
Hopefully with some pics.
GM3300 is right about the engine bay changes.
From the only pic I have of the engine bay, when the car was new, he is correct.
Also, there was no reference to engine size anywhere.
There was no decal on the rocker cover like the pic in the add (seperate post), just plain chrome.
The air filter decal only had the blue and red band, with the 2600S section now being clear. It did not say 2850S.
Bazza or Grant, Would either of you know if the vehicles original colour can be known from the production number?
You can PM me if you like.
John.
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