11 replies to this topic

[Bazza]

Hi Michelle

Even if the '69 cars did have an ADR tag - it doesn't show the Body Number only the Vehicle Serial Number (aka Chassis Number) that is also stamped on the inner guard.

If there is no evidence of an inner guard change or alteration to the stamping, then by definition this is the Chassis Number of your car.

If your car has all the GTR features and there seems to be no evidence of the above then the likelihood is that the car is genuine.

The Body Number (from the Trim Tag) cannot be cross referenced for authenticity. As threeblindmice mentioned it can be matched (as a rough guide) with Body Numbers from cars where the completion date is known.

The best thing is to post what numbers you have (including the VIN) and forum members can take it from there.

Cheers

Bazza

[Bazza]

How do i tell if this chassis number is off a GTR

Hi again Michelle

You can't tell anything from the Chassis Number other than that the car is an LC Torana and the factory that produced it. You can say whether the Chassis Number is in the same time frame as the VIN. eg. If the VIN says Oct '69 and the Chassis Number is in mid 1970 range - then there is a problem. Similarly, if the Body Number is in a date range that doesn't accord with the completion date associated with the VIN - again, a problem.

Unfortunately, the General didn't record Chassis Numbers or Body Numbers so cars can only be identified by the VIN. Even then, you can never really be sure that the VIN tag was originally attached to the car under examination. Experts have been fooled by a good mock-up.

I am happy to take a look at the numbers if you don't want to post them - but posting them shouldn't be an issue.

Bazza

[lcgtrrob]

hi Bazza & mrfmad


sorry to but in,but i've got a question just to confuse everyone,i've got a 69 gtr that the chassis number matches the body id tag,my mates got a 69 gtr but the numbers don't match,and i've also red on the forums that other peoples numbers don't match.


i was wondering if Bazza can shed some light on the subject


thanks Rob

[Bazza]

Hi Rob

I have noticed that phenomenon a couple of times too. I am only guessing that it occurred because the Brisbane plant numbered bodies sequentially reqardless of body style. If this is true - Chassis Number 1 would also be Body Number 1 and Chassis Number 2 would be Body Number 2 etc. etc. I am guessing this breaks down because the Chassis Number and Body Number are allocated at different times in the production process. Someone who has knowledge of the process may be able to correct me.

This prenomenon does not occur with the Adelaide built cars because the bodys were numbered according to body style. eg Chassis Number 1 may be a GTR Body Number 1, Chassis Number 2 may be a 4 door Body Number 1, Chassis Number 3 may be a 2 Door S Body Number 1 etc.

It should be understood that Body Numbers and Chassis Numbers are two different things and they do not have to match.

Cheers

Bazza

[yel327]

You find a similar phenomenen with HK and early HT where the chassis number (firewall of HK-HG) is close to the BODY number on the BODY plate (big plate) for Acacia Ridge and Dandenong built cars. From my experience it is never exactly the same number, except possibly for the first few cars. If it is exactly the same then I start looking for a fake. As stated above, for Pagewood and Elizabeth built cars the BODY number isn't sequential for HK or HT but sequential for luxury level, body style and engine eg HT V8 Kingswood ute (480), HK GTS 327 (1837) etc. For example my Warwick Yellow GTS 327 has Pagewood sequential chassis number HK231xxSS but it's BODY number is 81837KR-00002-H5, whereas a Pagewood 6cyl Kingswood sedan with chassis number HK231xx(+1)SS would have a BODY number like 80369KR-06150-H5. But the VIN is sequential and runs sequential with the chassis number (but on a different sequence of course), and that is where lots of people become unstuck. Reason is there is lots of HK-HG and LC ID data collected off original cars before the prices went sky high and faking became popular, so it's very hard to fake a car without someone being able to pick the numbers as being wrong, unless of course the original chassis number has also been transplanted. I can tell for example a HK, if the wrong chassis number is on a car with a set of plates to a pretty high accuracy, simply by the volume of original data collected. There is some latitude for VIN and chassis to be out of whack a little bit due to the allocation of PSN and when a car is actually completed, but not much.
HQ's from some plants have a similar phenomenen, where there is actually a firewall number that means very little and it doesn't match the chassis or BODY numbers. But it is close (within 50 or so), so to rebody a car you need more than the rails and ID plates - you need to know to some degree of accuracy what the firewall number has to be. And this is where a few rebodied GTS350 coupes have tripped up in recent times.
I suppose the moral is - Fakers/Fraudsters beware. Someone out there can nearlly always pick something you didn'y know about. And I suppose this applies not just to ID plates, but to little minor differences between the "right" body and a replacement.

Byron

[lcgtrrob]

thanks for your replies guys,mine is a Brisbane car,and i was told it was built on 29-9-69,so it must have been one of the first built,i suppose it's a good thing the numbers match for when it comes time to sell,thanks Rob

[sainters]

aderlaide cars are scratched in and match vin tag long skinny tag

[yel327]

under the adr tag (near wiper motor) they did write the body number in red texture, i guess that way the body/ paint tag matched everything else.

When i first seen the number under my tag i thought it was a paint code...co-incidently it was similar to rally red paint number but it was the body number

It's actually the last digits of the PSN (which is the suffix of the VIN number minus the letter on the end if it has one), eg (in HJ terms) 8Q37TEH780789J, the numbers on the back of the ADR plate will be 789. For the earlier style VIN there will be no letter on the end so it will just be the last 3 digits. Not all plants did this. I'm pretty sure it was Elizabeth (Adelaide), but possibly others.