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Gluing new panels inplace

Started by _2runa_ , Jul 03 2008 03:54 PM

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13 replies to this topic

#1 _2runa_

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 03:54 PM

I went to a panel beater supplier and mentioned that I had etched painted over some lead wiping that i just completed and asked whether you could bog over it, he said yes however why did you lead wipe when there is a product available like metal fibre bog ( a U-POL product).
I also mentioned i was repairing some rusty sections by mig welding new sections into place,
He showed me a 3M product that panel shop's use which is as strong as mig and is approved by the authorities, just glue the two sections together and pop rivert it to hold it tight. when its dry knock the heads of the riverts a sander and job is done.
Glue to old school..... yeah right, but i guess as he said we need to keep up with the times. One thing no warped panels :spoton:

Has any one tried it yet?

Edited by 2runa, 03 July 2008 - 03:56 PM.

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 03:58 PM

No but I wish that was around when i was at school:D Sounds very interesting..did he say a price.

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#3 _2runa_

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 04:10 PM

It looks like large double syringe of Araldite, appox. $75 and as he said it will not come apart.

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#4 _2runa_

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 04:40 PM

Just some more info

3M� Automix� Panel Bonding Adhesive >

3M� Automix� Panel Bonding Adhesive, 08115, 200 mL Cartridge, 6 per case
Two-part epoxy used to bond steel, aluminum, SMC, and FRP (traditional fiberglass). The primary use is to replace quarter panels, roofs, box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides and door skins.

Full Description �

For use on outer body panels only. Not for use on structural components such as pillars, frame rails, core supports, or rocker panels (on unibody vehicles). Cures on demand with addition of heat. Glass beads work as built-in spacers for optimum bond line thickness. Product has corrosion inhibiting ability. Has excellent shelf life, either opened or unopened.

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#5 71xu1

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 04:41 PM

I will guarantee you will see a line where the two panels are glued together when the car is painted even if your bog work originally before painting was perfect. Its got to do with expansion and contraction being different from metal to glue. Being a panelbeater with over 20yrs experience there is no cheap easy way out when it come to repairing rust.

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#6 _2runa_

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 05:15 PM

Yeah I know what you mean however there are panel shops using it for rust repairs and i do understand what you sayabout the movement.

Edited by 2runa, 03 July 2008 - 05:16 PM.

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#7 LXM21

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 09:40 PM

Being a panelbeater with over 20yrs experience there is no cheap easy way out when it come to repairing rust.

Very true !!

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#8 _Leakey_

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 10:00 PM

We touched on this a while back with regards a Sikaflex product.

The area in question was the thin panel where the hatch top gutter and roof join.
Bloody hard to do right when its a bad rust issue without warping the hatch area
and roof.

It was suggested to clean up the rust, maybe weld a rod side to side, then glue
in a panel to finish it all.

I believe the Sikaflex product was the same spec as the stuff GM use to glue
structural parts.

Edited by Leakey, 03 July 2008 - 10:00 PM.

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#9 rodomo

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 11:30 PM

Some info and pics in this thread:
http://www.gmh-toran...topic=21558&hl=

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#10 _2runa_

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 10:58 AM

They show the product Automix panel bonding adhesive being used in a supervised crash test and the product parts in the same area as the weld section.
Note: This product is differant to Sikaflex.

I think the product is designed to be used to glue a panel at the seam where movement is not an issue and not a rust section in the middle of a panel.

In saying that i believe some panel shops are using this product to glue in rust repair sections with success to date. Using a U-pol stainless fibre bog to cover it.

I think we have all seen bodgie repairs where sheet metal and pop riverts have been used together with bog and by some stroke of luck there has been no cracking in the paint work.

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#11 71xu1

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 11:29 AM

I was forced to use panel bonding glue years ago when it first came out to glue a turrent on a sigma. The glue was designed to go where the turrent is mill welded to the drip rails. Like I said I was forced to use it. I remember not sleeping for a week afterwards thinking this turrent is going to come unglued. The next job that I was supposed to use glue on I flatly refused and told my boss that if he wanted to glue it on he could do it himself and start looking for a new panelbeater. My point I have seen this glue used Commodores on the bulkhead (factory) and I have seen them when they have taken a hard hit in an accident and the glue pull apart. Very rarely will you see spotwelds or welding pull apart. Even if the glues have come a long way I also have problems with the glues breaking down and weakening, a weld is forever.

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#12 _Pete_

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 08:06 PM

Panel Bonding glues aren't originally designed for rust repair work, We use Fusor products at work in the course of repairing smash damaged cars. The Glues don't and shouldnt replace welding, we use it on the edges of replacement door skins, wheel arch lips on VE commodores when you replace a Quarter panel etc. Anywhere the vehicle's manufacturer uses it that's where you should replace it to maintain the vehicles structural integrity.

I'm with 71xu1 on this subject, Rust repair sections should be welded in. There's no "easy way out" in rectifying rust damage properly. The price of the glues would be better spent buying a cheap MIG welder, you will get better value for money and be able to get the job done properly and still have a handy tool in the shed.

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#13 _Pete_

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Posted 04 July 2008 - 08:45 PM

Another bit of an addition to the discussion..

VE Commodores have a plastic/composite Boot Floor Panel (spare wheel well) that is glued in between the rails and the inner beaver panel. This is glued in with the 2part Panel bonding epoxy's that we're discussing here. Now I haven't seen one that's let go in the course of an accident but you have to remove and replace the Boot Floor Panel to replace the beaver panel etc.

Holden specifies it be cut out using Piano Wire and the panel replaced with a new one similar to the way Windscreen Fitters cut out Urethaned Windscreens etc. OR you can use what's called an Induction Heater which uses the concept of a big Magnet to create heat to release glues etc.

We have an Induction Heater at work and you can use it on the VE boot floor panel to release the glue and it comes off so cleanly you could reuse the panel if you wanted it's crazy. So panel bonding glues as great as they are will still be susceptable to potentially breaking down (like 71xu1 said) unlike a decent weld.

Now the Sunlight doesnt have enough heat to release the glue but I'm not sure how long the glues would hold up in the long term with continuous exposure to nature.

But Panel Beating is not an exact science, different people prefer different methods for everything and have the same success!!