24 replies to this topic

[Zook]

Try here for a stroker kit:
http://www.pro-stroke.com.au/
I think the basic kit is about $2000.
I'm putting a Ford 221 cranked 186 (about 235ci) into my LC and have the engine here in bits if you need photos of what needs to done machining-wise.

[yel327]

A HP cast block is just an early 179. All early Holden sixes (prior to mid 1967) has forged cranks, and they are all the same stroke including 186 - only the 202 has a bigger stroke. You can turn the 179 into a 186 by boring it 60 thou oversize. You would be better off with a 186 block if you want 186 cubes though. In fact if you want more cubes and torque (and power) use a 202.

There are lots of myths about the HP 179. Most of them are BS. It is just am early 179. Note that early 308 blocks also have HP on the side and it means nothing either. No early Holden sixes were cast in Canada.

[yel327]

Yes. Type 2 HK GTS327 engines, HK-HT 307 engines, plus most of HT and HG engines and all HQ 350 engines. No other Holden stuff that I know of. Not sure whether the centres of the 10 and 12 bolt diffs from HK-HG were USA or Canadian cast.

[yel327]

Agree with gstar. Use a blue/black crank and rods all balanced in a rope seal red 202 block with head to suit the carbies. That is triple webers/dellortos use 12 port head off black EFI of Yella terra 12 port, or other carbs use modified red head.

Squirrelalien, if you want a standard bore 186P block, call Greg on 02 49598999. I'm sure there is a few in his yard, one in a blue HK Kingswood wagon that i'm pretty sure is standard bore. There's also a really good HK Kingswood sedan that may also be original bore. These engines will probably have to go 30 or 40 thou as you'll have trouble finding smaller pistons for a 186 nowadays plus after 40 years the bores wil probably be worn past 20 thou. One other possibility is to use a blue/black 202 crank and rods as above with the mains turned down to suit the 186, and then you should be able to get smaller pistons. This is really silly though as it would be heaps cheaper to use a 202 block unless you really want to keep a 186 in it.

[warrenm]

Red crank= 19 or 20 kg
Blue/Black=27kg
The red crank will spin up quicker due to less rotating mass but the blue/black will be smoother due to the counter weights.
Warren

[yel327]

what has to be done to get a blue or black crank in to a red 186.

Grind the mains down to 186 size (or possibly align bore the block to suit bigger bearings), and if the 186 is a neoprene rear main (which I think they all are) grind the seal journal down to the neoprene size (blue/black are rope seal). Then make sure the camshaft you use is for a 202 (all new cams should be) with the scallops to clear the rod bolts.

[enderwigginau]

All Chevs in early holdens were Canadian.

The one "myth" that I will always stand by is the quality of the iron in the HP blocks over the lower grade metal in the later blocks. The HP is less likely to "chuck" and is more resilient. This is the reason you use em for strokers.
Before anyone says it was the crank you needed, they were steel in ALL early reds.......

Does someone want to drill a few blocks and collect the shavings for metalurgical analysis?

Grant..

[RIM-010]

hmm. I might use my HP as a basis for the blown motor for the LJ...

Tim

[nzxu1]

l have a brand new 186 short engine and head from 1966 vintage if you're interested though l live in New Zealand . l've never looked but l dare say it has a steel crank in it too .

[yel327]

All Chevs in early holdens were Canadian.

The one "myth" that I will always stand by is the quality of the iron in the HP blocks over the lower grade metal in the later blocks. The HP is less likely to "chuck" and is more resilient. This is the reason you use em for strokers.
Before anyone says it was the crank you needed, they were steel in ALL early reds.......

Does someone want to drill a few blocks and collect the shavings for metalurgical analysis?

Grant..

There's another myth - ie "All Chevs in early Holdens were Canadian". Type 1 HK GTS 327 engines (short water pump) were cast in Tonnawanda, New York hence the T prefix to the North American part of the engine number. The first type 350 manual engines in HT were also Tonnawanda cast but I can't remember exactly which (if any) HG 350 manual engines were US sourced. All 307's, type 2 327, HT and HG 350 auto plus some of the manual HT/G engines and all HQ 350 were Canadian. The large journal 327's fitted to CKD Impalas etc were also Tonnawanda even past release of type 2 327 in HK, but prior to HK I think they were all Canadian cast - my '57 Chev blue flame is Canadian too. Holden complianced C20/K20/C30 trucks had Flint, Michigan cast engines from memory.

I think you'll find that all early Holden 6 cyl blocks prior to mid HR were cast in the same foundry and from the same cast iron. So while the HP may be different material to say a HK-HG 186, it won't be any different to any other 179 from a HD or late EH. I wonder if Holden had cast FRED or something like that into the side if people would have invented so much stuff about HP 179 and 308 blocks? Dr Terry knows a lot more on this subject than me so he might add more or correct any mistakes if he reads this post.

Edited by yel327, 22 July 2008 - 03:48 PM.

[piquet]

I am as far as i am aware the only person racing a n LC XU1 in Historic touring cars So I ahve to use a 186.
Seems to get along OK . Does 1min 58 at phillip island and 1.28's at Sandown.
Just off the tail of the 202 XU1's.
The 186 lacks a bit in top end but spuns up a bit sfaster that the 202. All out Hp there is not a lot in it.
Roller cam Holden 6's engies in Historics are getting over 300HP (normally aspirated) and flat tappet engines just under 300, mine had about 275 at the flywheel so it wasn't too far off the pace HP wise.
just dont go too wild with the camshaft and not too big on the ports for the head and they go really well

Dont want to give too much away on the open web.

[piquet]

3 x 45 mm webers with HM9C extractors and a 2.5" side exit exhaust

The head is the answer get that right and they fly\cheers
piquet