I'm in Adelaide and wishing to convert my hatch to a v8.
It is already fitted with the v8 model brake booster, and i have a 3 core radiator to suit. Apart from the engine and gearbox, are there any tailshaft mod's to be done? Im plannin on keepin the banjo for a while till i can get some funds (luckily i have a spare).
Also, does my car need to go through regency when doing this conversion or is it as simple as going into the local motor transport place and giving them some numbers and they'll change over the rego? Or could i just get an engineers certificate?
Anyone who has done this conversion in SA, help would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
Mike
V8 conversion
Started by
77_LX_HATCH
, Mar 01 2006 04:03 PM
8 replies to this topic
#1
77_LX_HATCH
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 04:03 PM
#2
_Loki_
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:07 PM
Your tailshaft being the correct length will depend on your transmission (different transmissions have different lengths - you haven't specified what trans).
Keep in mind some people will remind you that if you plan on running a 6cyl tailshaft that universals may give up the game if you're giving it some decent accelerator damage, as might the old banjo.
Personally, my experience is:: I'm running a worked 308, Turbo350 with 6cyl tailshaft and banjo [with a v8 shaft and spare banjo center lying around] with only 205's holding it all to the road I haven't had troubles -yet-.
In QLD :: You are not required to get an engineers certificate IF you are putting in an engine TYPE [NOT capacity] that the car came with as a factory option.
This means, if you were to put in an EFI V8 from a VN/VP you would need an engineer's certificate, if you used an old red block etc. you are in the cleer.
As for registration changes, in QLD you turn up to a department of transport center, inform them of the change (you must have the car present), someone will come out and check the engine # - you pay the difference of your rego.
For EXAMPLE :: If you just registered 6months a day earlier as a 6cyl which cost $400 and a v8 is normally $800 for 6 months - you pay them $400 difference.
In QLD, from our Department of Transport's mouths themselves, (I enquired what happens if caught driving to the service center registered as a 6cyl), it is NOT an on-the-spot fineable offense, you are given a '14 day notice' to change the registration.
If you change the registration within the 14 day period and take the 'fine' and proof of change to local police station there is no consequences.
Yea, this does make one wonder why you would bother to change your registration until caught - the primary reason is insurance, you cannot change your insurance policy (or insure through a different company) to an 8-cylinder unless your car is properly registered as one (they will perform a check).
Posted incase anybody in QLD is wondering the same information; and I would imagine SA is very similar (calling up your transport department will yield you a quick answer!), so should give you at least the idea.
----------------------------
I left this until the end :: In a 'Perfect' Physics World, this theory makes sense
My physics is a little rusty as it's been years since I learnt it all, but ::
My general "physics" theory is that the maximum co-efficient of force you can apply through diff/universals is equivalent to the maximum amount of traction your tyres can apply to the road.
This is because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (If you push Aeyres rock, Aeyres rock 'pushes' back on you)... Make sense?
If your tyres require 150Nm of force before they break free [and continue to spin], then conversely, 150Nm of force is placed back onto your Driveline (Ignoring Driveline Force Losses
) - Extra force would result in faster wheelspinning (But still only 150Nm of force placed through the driveline).
If you consider the wet - Much less force required to spin the wheels due to less friction/traction, therefore much less stress placed on the driveline (small tyres - less traction).
Or think of it as a wheelnut - Your hands are the engine, the wheelbrace the driveline and the wheelnut is the tyres
If it's loose it doesn't take much force to turn it, if it's tight/rusted/crossthreaded a much larger force is required to turn it.
Applying extra force in either case will just result in the nut (or tyres) spinning faster after the initial break-free.
I hope that kinda makes sense.
In short, theoretically your diff/universals life expectency will be determined by how much traction you have.
This is my answer as to why some people will say they have never had any troubles with the old banjo or 6cyl shaft/uni's even after running in numerous burnout comps.
And some will say they snap them every 6 months
This should provide a universally applicable answer to the question people always ask :: Will My Diff/Tailshaft survive?
If anybody has a better explaination (or more correct), please do post it.
Keep in mind some people will remind you that if you plan on running a 6cyl tailshaft that universals may give up the game if you're giving it some decent accelerator damage, as might the old banjo.
Personally, my experience is:: I'm running a worked 308, Turbo350 with 6cyl tailshaft and banjo [with a v8 shaft and spare banjo center lying around] with only 205's holding it all to the road I haven't had troubles -yet-.
In QLD :: You are not required to get an engineers certificate IF you are putting in an engine TYPE [NOT capacity] that the car came with as a factory option.
This means, if you were to put in an EFI V8 from a VN/VP you would need an engineer's certificate, if you used an old red block etc. you are in the cleer.
As for registration changes, in QLD you turn up to a department of transport center, inform them of the change (you must have the car present), someone will come out and check the engine # - you pay the difference of your rego.
For EXAMPLE :: If you just registered 6months a day earlier as a 6cyl which cost $400 and a v8 is normally $800 for 6 months - you pay them $400 difference.
In QLD, from our Department of Transport's mouths themselves, (I enquired what happens if caught driving to the service center registered as a 6cyl), it is NOT an on-the-spot fineable offense, you are given a '14 day notice' to change the registration.
If you change the registration within the 14 day period and take the 'fine' and proof of change to local police station there is no consequences.
Yea, this does make one wonder why you would bother to change your registration until caught - the primary reason is insurance, you cannot change your insurance policy (or insure through a different company) to an 8-cylinder unless your car is properly registered as one (they will perform a check).
Posted incase anybody in QLD is wondering the same information; and I would imagine SA is very similar (calling up your transport department will yield you a quick answer!), so should give you at least the idea.
----------------------------
I left this until the end :: In a 'Perfect' Physics World, this theory makes sense
My physics is a little rusty as it's been years since I learnt it all, but ::
My general "physics" theory is that the maximum co-efficient of force you can apply through diff/universals is equivalent to the maximum amount of traction your tyres can apply to the road.
This is because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (If you push Aeyres rock, Aeyres rock 'pushes' back on you)... Make sense?
If your tyres require 150Nm of force before they break free [and continue to spin], then conversely, 150Nm of force is placed back onto your Driveline (Ignoring Driveline Force Losses
) - Extra force would result in faster wheelspinning (But still only 150Nm of force placed through the driveline).If you consider the wet - Much less force required to spin the wheels due to less friction/traction, therefore much less stress placed on the driveline (small tyres - less traction).
Or think of it as a wheelnut - Your hands are the engine, the wheelbrace the driveline and the wheelnut is the tyres
If it's loose it doesn't take much force to turn it, if it's tight/rusted/crossthreaded a much larger force is required to turn it.
Applying extra force in either case will just result in the nut (or tyres) spinning faster after the initial break-free.
I hope that kinda makes sense.
In short, theoretically your diff/universals life expectency will be determined by how much traction you have.
This is my answer as to why some people will say they have never had any troubles with the old banjo or 6cyl shaft/uni's even after running in numerous burnout comps.
And some will say they snap them every 6 months
This should provide a universally applicable answer to the question people always ask :: Will My Diff/Tailshaft survive?
If anybody has a better explaination (or more correct), please do post it.
Edited by Loki, 03 March 2006 - 12:10 PM.
#3
Racehatch
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Posted 03 March 2006 - 02:03 PM
Hey Mike,
Should be a pretty straight forward conversion, as mentioned, the tailshaft length will depend on the trans used.
As far as Adelaide Rego goes, I did the same thing about 5 years ago, and it was as simple as filling out a change of engine number form (from any motor reg office) and notifying them of the new engine (type, capacity etc). As they came out with a holden V8 standard, there is no engineering required (different for the SBC).
I guess there is a chance they might have changed the rules over the last 5 years, but i doubt it.
cheers,
Sam
Should be a pretty straight forward conversion, as mentioned, the tailshaft length will depend on the trans used.
As far as Adelaide Rego goes, I did the same thing about 5 years ago, and it was as simple as filling out a change of engine number form (from any motor reg office) and notifying them of the new engine (type, capacity etc). As they came out with a holden V8 standard, there is no engineering required (different for the SBC).
I guess there is a chance they might have changed the rules over the last 5 years, but i doubt it.
cheers,
Sam
Edited by 350LH, 03 March 2006 - 02:05 PM.
#4
_Cane_It_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:42 AM
what you say is true, however the torsional force at the drive line is not equal the torque at the tyres at the point of traction loss, it is however proportional due to the mechanial advantage that the diff offers..... different diff ratios change the proportion..... i'm pretty sure, feel free to correct me if im wrong.I left this until the end :: In a 'Perfect' Physics World, this theory makes sense
My physics is a little rusty as it's been years since I learnt it all, but ::
My general "physics" theory is that the maximum co-efficient of force you can apply through diff/universals is equivalent to the maximum amount of traction your tyres can apply to the road.
This is because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. (If you push Aeyres rock, Aeyres rock 'pushes' back on you)... Make sense?
If your tyres require 150Nm of force before they break free [and continue to spin], then conversely, 150Nm of force is placed back onto your Driveline (Ignoring Driveline Force Losses
If you consider the wet - Much less force required to spin the wheels due to less friction/traction, therefore much less stress placed on the driveline (small tyres - less traction).
Or think of it as a wheelnut - Your hands are the engine, the wheelbrace the driveline and the wheelnut is the tyres
If it's loose it doesn't take much force to turn it, if it's tight/rusted/crossthreaded a much larger force is required to turn it.
Applying extra force in either case will just result in the nut (or tyres) spinning faster after the initial break-free.
I hope that kinda makes sense.
In short, theoretically your diff/universals life expectency will be determined by how much traction you have.
This is my answer as to why some people will say they have never had any troubles with the old banjo or 6cyl shaft/uni's even after running in numerous burnout comps.
And some will say they snap them every 6 months
This should provide a universally applicable answer to the question people always ask :: Will My Diff/Tailshaft survive?
If anybody has a better explaination (or more correct), please do post it.
#5
77_LX_HATCH
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:27 AM
Wow, cheers for that Loki!
And thanks 350LH, I had heard if the car came out as a v8 (factory option) no inspection is required.
I'm thinkin of just usin the Aussie 4 spd I Have now with my 6, and just gettin a different bellhousing.
Cheers
Mike
And thanks 350LH, I had heard if the car came out as a v8 (factory option) no inspection is required.
I'm thinkin of just usin the Aussie 4 spd I Have now with my 6, and just gettin a different bellhousing.
Cheers
Mike
#6
Racehatch
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:20 PM
Hey again,
If your going with the aussie 4 speed, then you wont have to change the tailshaft (although the 6cyl uni's arnt ideal for a v8), keep in mind the input shaft on the the gearbox will be different for the v8 (longer) and will need to be changed for it to fit.
If your going with the aussie 4 speed, then you wont have to change the tailshaft (although the 6cyl uni's arnt ideal for a v8), keep in mind the input shaft on the the gearbox will be different for the v8 (longer) and will need to be changed for it to fit.
#7
_Loki_
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 05:07 PM
I think I know what you're saying ::what you say is true, however the torsional force at the drive line is not equal the torque at the tyres at the point of traction loss, it is however proportional due to the mechanial advantage that the diff offers..... different diff ratios change the proportion..... i'm pretty sure, feel free to correct me if im wrong.
You are correct that it would be proportional taking into consideration gearing (but they are all variables).
In reality it would probably take more force on the tailshaft/diff to spin the wheels than if you were to spin the wheels with the same force directly.
Just as "power at the flywheel" is greater than "power at the wheels".
But it would be constant.
i.e. considering 'C' Ratio Gear + 'D' ratio Diff + 'E' Tyre Width = 'X' amount of force.
Changing any of these variables left of the equals sign will effect the stress on the driveline.
You could put a car in 4th gear and try to spin the wheels from a standstill with 135' tyres - assuming the clutch didn't slip, thereby absorbing a metric assload of the force, the stress placed on the driveline might be equivalent to 1st gear in a very very short ratio setup but with 952' tread
The short answer is: The harder you make it for your wheels to spin - the more resistance your driveline is encountering - thus the quicker it breaks
I hope that makes some sort of pseudo-sense.
=)
#8
ToRunYa
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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:38 AM
hrmm i believe someone is taking the piss lol
#9
_smokem_
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Posted 13 March 2006 - 02:53 PM
this conversion needs no inspection in SA its
walk in rego just fill out papers and all is good !!!
but if anyone,s interested ive got rego for a 350
lh torana sedan up for grabs!
SA rego.
walk in rego just fill out papers and all is good !!!
but if anyone,s interested ive got rego for a 350
lh torana sedan up for grabs!
SA rego.
Edited by smokem, 13 March 2006 - 02:54 PM.
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