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Info required on triple carburettors


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#1 _Eddie_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:47 AM

I'd like a run down of the different setups of multiple carbie normally used on holden 6 motors. The ones I usually hear going around are SU's, Webers and Dellortos. What I'd like to know is the general difference in price range, difference in performance, difference in maintenance and tuning. Know of any good web pages I can read up at?

The reason I ask is I have a set of SU's at the moment which I'd like to put on the car but they will need to be cleaned up and possibly rebuilt. I am wondering if I should bother paying some to rebuild them or if it's better to buy an already reconditioned set. I see the triple Webers and Delltoros fetch a lot higher than the SU's. Why is that?

Also, the SU's came stock only on GTR's and XU-1s is that right? And is SU a seperate company from Stromberg?

#2 _Keithy's_UC_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:14 PM

Webers are ultimately the most sought after carburettor (in three's) these days! They seem to flow fuel and air much more efficiently than the others, and hence - more power!

Dont be fooled though - although the SU's are not fetching as much, they are still a brilliant carburettor! And to top it off they are easy as punch to tune (if you know how to tune 3 at a time)!!

I have a set of Triple SU's (1.75") that are getting rebuilt as we speak...

Keith

#3 Racehatch

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:40 PM

It was the stromberg's that came out on the XU1's, (150 LC, 175 LJ)

They are a completely different carby to the SU, and made by a different manufacturer.

I'd say the weber carbs would be the best option, they are a twin throat carb and have more adjustments, but can be a little bit more time consuming to keep in tune.

I have run both SU's and Stromberg's on holden sixes, personally I liked the stombergs better, they just seemed a bit more refined (driveability wise) as compared to the SU's

#4 _rorym_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 08:30 PM

Hate to burst some ballons but you can tell the blokes that have never had Webers...they always recommend them. Webers are the closest thing to manual fuel injection. you can get....they fall out of tune often and are not really suited for street use. If you dont have a local professional Weber tuner in your family and you are not running an NC race car,forget it. If you want flat out top end all the time at 7,000 rpm these are the goods...for idleing down Main St with the odd blat once a week...forget it. SUs are more suited to fine tuning a Hot motor and the XU1 style strommys are the most road/daily friendly carb.
R

P.S. Dellortos...see = Webers...Italian version of same. ..Webers and Dellortos =They are dearer because they cost 3 times as much as the others at retail.

Edited by rorym, 02 March 2006 - 08:35 PM.


#5 _Eddie_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 09:46 PM

It's all good - a bit of controversy, a bit of debate. It's all good as long as the facts get through. The more opinions the better I say as long as people's opinions are backed with personal experience on the subject, otherwise how else do we learn? We either learn the long way (and often the expensive way) for ourself, or we obtain facts from others. Keep the input coming if you've got something to give.

#6 _4door_LJ_

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:26 PM

I bought a set of SU's in similar condition to yours last year.
Spent the winter cleaning them up & re-kitting them.
They're on there now & running reasonably well. Got 'em balanced just need to tune them to the motor a bit better.
By doing it myself it's taken longer but I've learnt a hell of a lot about them & engine tuning along the way.
I bought a book from a 2nd hand bookshop on tuning SU's that was printed in 1968 & it's basically been my bible.
A decent website is:
SU website

#7 mrlctorana

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:43 PM

If you dont have a local professional Weber tuner in your family and you are not running an NC race car,forget it. If you want flat out top end all the time at 7,000 rpm these are the goods...for idleing down Main St with the odd blat once a week...forget it.

^^^ Yeah, I agree but also disagree, lol, sorry to be difficult. I run triple 45 mm Dellortos on a reasonably hot 202 and i love nothing more than to hear it sitting on 7000 RPM on the burnout pad at tarmak Dragway, But i also like to drive the thing on the street and on Torana runs n Stuff.

I've learnt how to give them a basic tune by using a piece of pipe, and im able to drive it on the street regularly without any troubles, aswell as sneek out the road and give it a bootfull. I've found that they stay in tune fairly well.

I suppose it just comes down to what you want... If it's perfomance go the webbers or dellortos or if its drivability and easy tuning take the strommys, they are very easy to work on and do perfom fairly well. Although heres a comparison not sure how accurate it is but i ran mine down the quater with the 175 strommys for a best of 14.6, bolted the dellortos on with no other modifications and got a best of 13.5. Although could be numerous other factors that influenced the times.

Anyway, I'm happy with my dellortos performance wise and drivablilty wise so the choice is really yours, and what it comes down to.

Cheers

Les

#8 _draglc_

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:24 PM

My webers were great, but did go out of tune every few months, but that was on an everyday driver, not the best i know! Sold them as i couldnt find anyone to tune them decently, and i hadnt learnt how at the time. I now have a set of 1.75 SU's, both HS and HIF design. I read that the HIF models are supposed to flow as good as webers but are better economy, not sure if thats true or not, but theyre what im using at the moment. SU's are cheap, you can pick them up pretty easily, and can be tuned for very good performance and are suited to drive with everyday.

A1

#9 _rorym_

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 05:26 PM

Yeah A1 is on the money again. HIF SUs are the go, I had them on my 1426cc Cooper S and they rock something solid. A modern upgraged SU used on the just past UK Coopers. They have the float bowls in the body, not hanging of them like the old 60/70s Cooper S ones.
Easy as to tune and they stay in tune.
R

#10 _draglc_

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 07:59 PM

yeh i got my engine back, and got it running today, had to tune the SU's myself to get it running. I almost got it spot on according to my carb guy.

R, engine will be run in soon, and ready to race! Hope ur gonna make it to morgan park in may :)

A1

#11 _rorym_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:02 AM

Look at
www.wheelsonwidebay.com.au
These guys were the ones that got Leyburn and Gatton up and running.
R

#12 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:35 PM

its looking less and less likley i'll make it there :(

#13 Racehatch

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 12:44 PM

So I guess the short answer to all this is:

max performance with no expense spared - weber/dellortos

everyday easy to tune/ keep in tune - SU/Stromberg :spoton:

Hate to burst some ballons but you can tell the blokes that have never had Webers...they always recommend them. Webers are the closest thing to manual fuel injection. you can get....


haha i assume you are referring to me, you are right I have never run triple webers on a holden six, but does dual webers on holden V8 count... :) Admittedly I had help with the tune side of things, but I found that it was worth getting someone with knowledge to do the initial setup. With a few pointers on what to adjust relative to the variables (say weather/car setup for example) it wasnt THAT hard to keep them in tune. Provided you are not constatly changing you engine spec..... Probably the hardest part is just getting the right advice to start with, as there are LOTS of people who think they know....

I guess at the end of the day, everyone has different experiences with all things car related, and these forums are a great way of sharing what we all have learned!

cheers,

Sam

#14 _rorym_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 01:56 PM

Nah, wasnt having a go Sam, but if you have Webers and they are a pifteenth out they burp and fart and carry on...as you said...a good tuner is GOD, bad advice will have you tearing your hair out...The only proper way is a dyno...THEN you can get some serious HP numbers.
R

#15 _Eddie_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 06:24 PM

How much would it cost to have the car dyno tuned? Provided everything's there and not much messing is needed with the manifold, linkages, carbs, etc? 400-500 bucks?

How often would it need to be tuned? Not for all out track racing, but for a fairly nice streeter, driven once, maybe twice a week? Once a year, twice a year?

#16 _rorym_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 06:42 PM

Eddie,
My guy does 4 runs for $200 including the tune...a few needles or jets might be extra but it runs spot on.
R

#17 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:01 PM

thats fairly damb reasonable.

#18 _Eddie_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 07:21 PM

Is that in Maryborough? Damn, ask him if he wants to come down to brissie and do my car.

EDIT: While we're on the topic, does anyone know a good dyno tuner in Brisbane? Preferably one with good knowledge of holden 6's and SU's and who's not gonna rip me off. Redcliffe dyno maybe?

EDIT 2: I'll also need the SU's to be rebuilt and kitted if anyone knows anyone good?

Edited by Eddie, 04 March 2006 - 07:29 PM.


#19 _draglc_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:26 PM

hey mate, look no further.

mick at northside carburettors is a whiz.. does webers, and he does my SUs

also does dyno tuning, though he takes the car somewhere else to do it as he doesnt have one in his shop.

his number is 3865 3111

A1

#20 _uglybob_

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:33 PM

hey i just built my engine and need someone to tune my su's for me in perth, does anyone know of a good fella over here??
sorri to but in..

#21 _Aquarius - LC_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:08 PM

G'day all,
Eddie, I have owned holden 6's for the last 17 or so years,
and had just about every carby configuration you can, :lol
and in my opinion the 1"3/4 su's i currently run are best
allround set up ,great driveability,good power aswell :clap:
It does take some dyno work to find the right spring-needle
combo for your particular engine.
mine haven't gone out of tune yet.

...goes to touch wood really quick:lol

#22 _Keithy's_UC_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:52 PM

Got a picture for y'all of my SU's before they went in for a build... Just thought i'd share it with you!

Posted Image

I will be polishing them up before they are fitted/dyno tuned...

#23 _Eddie_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 05:05 PM

mick at northside carburettors is a whiz.. does webers, and he does my SUs

Ah Mick yes, I have been through these guys before - their shop is like 2 mins down the road from me. I got them to install a carb and electronic ignition on my old motor. He can do my SUs... Now to get the best out of the motor, the SUs should be configured and jetted accordingly to the engines displacement, breathing etc? How do they determine this? Do you just give them your engine figures and it's done theoretically on paper or do they test your motor, by dyno maybe, then configure it from there?

#24 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 05:08 PM

rough guess on paper to find a ballpark and then dyno to fine tune.

#25 _draglc_

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:42 PM

he just knows what needles to use for different applications, best bet is to give him a call and ask him about it. he changed all my needles when i first went there.

A1




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