this may seem a dumb question but, why do we have run in a new cam?
Why can't they simulate an engine and bed them cam in at the cam factory?
Reason for the question is that my Crow Cam spec sheet states that cam needs to be coated with there lube and run at over 1200rpm for more than 10 mins.....fine not a problem BUT who has ever built an engine from scratch, rewired car,new carb, rekit fuel pump etc and have those teething problem when she wont start straightaway!
perfect world would be that the car start first crank
What if any damage can happen to these cams if you dont get it started first go
running in a cam!
Started by
_gtr161s_
, Dec 08 2008 05:57 PM
22 replies to this topic
#2
TerrA LX
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:27 PM
Why can't they simulate an engine and bed them cam in at the cam factory?
Do you want to buy a second hand cam and lifters?
You, or a mechanic should be able to get it close to running before the key is hit for the first time, (or get someone who can if you are worried about damaging something) then tune it and run in the cam.
#3
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:41 PM
If something starts to go wrong you can turn it off.
Just don't let it idle till you finish your 10mins.
Just don't let it idle till you finish your 10mins.
#4
_oldjohnno_
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:42 PM
The reason you need to keep the revs up for the first few minutes is to make sure the cam is sufficiently oiled. Most engines don't have direct lubrication of the lobes and lifters and rely on the oil thrown from the crank for much of their oil supply. Bringing the revs up makes sure that there is enough oil being flung from the big ends to prevent dry running. Some engines eg. some Volvos have a trough or reservoir under the cam and the lobes dip into the oil in the trough to keep them oiled even at idle. Double check your timing and firing order, and prime the carb before you hit the key and it should start straight away. Even if you do have to crank it a little while you won't have any dramas provided you used the moly grease on the lobes when you assembled it.
#5
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:14 PM
1,500 RPM for 10 minutes. Got bored doing mine, so did 1,500 for 3 mintues, 1,700 for 3 minutes, and 1,500 for the last 4 minutes.
You need to use the running in grease they supply pretty liberally to all the lobes and to the bottoms of the hydraulic lifters. Worked a treat on Yella, and it's still going strong some 4 years later.
I spent about 9 months selecting the right cam, and still happy with it to this day. Good all round cam.
You need to use the running in grease they supply pretty liberally to all the lobes and to the bottoms of the hydraulic lifters. Worked a treat on Yella, and it's still going strong some 4 years later.
I spent about 9 months selecting the right cam, and still happy with it to this day. Good all round cam.
Edited by Yella SLuR, 08 December 2008 - 07:15 PM.
#6
_BambooRon_
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:19 PM
i have, it wasn't too bad.
make sure to coat cam in moly grease
like everyone says-check timing/firing order.
i like to leave plugs out-ground coil spark-crank over till you get oil pressor.
this will prime carb as well-refit plugs-start
have someone watching coolant level-temp and for leaks-thermostat may
have air trapped-water dissappers real quick at 1200 rpm.
good luck............
make sure to coat cam in moly grease
like everyone says-check timing/firing order.
i like to leave plugs out-ground coil spark-crank over till you get oil pressor.
this will prime carb as well-refit plugs-start
have someone watching coolant level-temp and for leaks-thermostat may
have air trapped-water dissappers real quick at 1200 rpm.
good luck............
#7
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:30 PM
I have always run them in around 2000 RPM never had any dramas except neighbours...particularly when its straight extractors
#8
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 07:35 PM
i have, it wasn't too bad.
make sure to coat cam in moly grease
like everyone says-check timing/firing order.
i like to leave plugs out-ground coil spark-crank over till you get oil pressor.
this will prime carb as well-refit plugs-start
have someone watching coolant level-temp and for leaks-thermostat may
have air trapped-water dissappers real quick at 1200 rpm.
good luck............
Aren't you just prolonging the pain? Get into it as soon as you can I reckon. You can get the timing fairly close to spot on by doing it statically, would prolly drive like crap though.
I can agree with the neighbours comment!!!! All the more reason to do it right the first time.
#10
Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:41 PM
No! No! No! The cam will be gone before you get to fire it in anger, all this does is wipe the lube off! Prime the pump manually if necessary (vaseline and/or fill the pickup with oil) and fire the engine straight away to the minimum recommended revsi like to leave plugs out-ground coil spark-crank over till you get oil pressor.
#11
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 08:45 PM
I used heaps of assembly lube and Diesel oil (Has a higher Zinc content) on the start up and run in process, so far so good.
#12
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:23 PM
Pretty sure the initial lube makes up for the initial lack of oil pressure, so I think your working at cross purposes trying to prime it up before fully starting it.
#13
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 09:27 PM
Just fill the oil filter with oil and the pump with vaso, never had a problem yet.
#14
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Posted 08 December 2008 - 10:05 PM
if your using a very mild to stock cam you shouldnt have to many problems with running it in and not having the cam wear out prematurely. when using the bigger cam shafts, heavier valve springs are fitted and this is were the probs can occur. keeping the revs at that point also helps to get the lifters turning in there bores, if they dont spin your cam will wear out. what alot of engine builders do to help with runing in the cam especially larger ones, is to remove the inner damper valve springs, this reduces the load on the cam lobes, once the run in is done, they refit the innner springs.
if using roller, iv been told dont have to do any of that. that makes life easier.
its a worry reving up a brand new engine when stone cold, worries me every time.
if using roller, iv been told dont have to do any of that. that makes life easier.
its a worry reving up a brand new engine when stone cold, worries me every time.
#15
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:54 AM
With a Chevy it's easy to solve the oil pressure issue, by removing the dizzy and using a "primer" dizzy without the cam gear (someone makes these), and drive the dizzy shaft (the right way) with an electric drill. Not sure how you can do this with a Holden engine though short of having a made up bolt in "dummy" pump with a drive shaft hanging out the back of the pump.
#16
_gtr161s_
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:25 AM
great reponses.
With all the viariables that have come up still begs the question why can't they do this before it get to you?
I know that technically it would be "2nd hand" but when you buy a brand new car your not the first person to turn it over its done on the factory line.
It would be so simple to simulate an engine setup and run the cam in
With all the viariables that have come up still begs the question why can't they do this before it get to you?
I know that technically it would be "2nd hand" but when you buy a brand new car your not the first person to turn it over its done on the factory line.
It would be so simple to simulate an engine setup and run the cam in
#17
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 08:46 PM
I guess the question there gtr161s are u goin to pay the extra to have some one dial in a cam run it in pull it back out just to sell it, imagine how many dummy engines they would need for all the cams or the cost of extra persons or machinery,
I think runnin in cam's everyone has there way n there style
I think runnin in cam's everyone has there way n there style
#18
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 01:52 PM
It would be so simple to simulate an engine setup and run the cam in
Well not really because everyone runs different valve spring pressure, some people prefer one brand lifter over another (which would have to be run in with the cam) and there is always core shift on the lifter bores that could not be compensated from motor to motor.
But i hear ya, anything to make life easier is always a good thing.
#19
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:12 PM
I second this suggestion, prime the oil filter and the pump, let it rip. Mark TNo! No! No! The cam will be gone before you get to fire it in anger, all this does is wipe the lube off! Prime the pump manually if necessary (vaseline and/or fill the pickup with oil) and fire the engine straight away to the minimum recommended revs
#20
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:55 PM
another little trick some of the old school guys used to do was use a vacuum pump of some sort connected to a sender hole.
applying vacuum pulls the oil into the engine through the oil pump, helps prime part of the engine so less time for oil pressure to buil on start up.
the chev way is the best. some of the ford 6cyl and chrysler 6 cyl can be primed the same, great idea.
applying vacuum pulls the oil into the engine through the oil pump, helps prime part of the engine so less time for oil pressure to buil on start up.
the chev way is the best. some of the ford 6cyl and chrysler 6 cyl can be primed the same, great idea.
#21
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Posted 11 December 2008 - 11:14 AM
the guy I bought my lc off gave me a very nice crow cam to put in my 202.
His advice to me was to run it in at 2000 for 20 mins, then go out and, i quote 'thrash the shit out of it, just give it hell, revv it right out'
No offence to anyone here but I think I might stick to the crow guidelines.
very interesting thread though.
His advice to me was to run it in at 2000 for 20 mins, then go out and, i quote 'thrash the shit out of it, just give it hell, revv it right out'
No offence to anyone here but I think I might stick to the crow guidelines.
very interesting thread though.
#22
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Posted 11 December 2008 - 06:21 PM
your actually bedding in the lifters to the cam. You would have to buy the cam and lifters as a set and then make sure you use the correct lifter on the correct lobe of the cam. To much hassle.
A boss of mine went to the holden motor factory a few years back ( hes not a car guy ) but he told me a story that after the motors had been fully assembled one guys job was to wire it up and start each motor and run it flat stick for ten minutes. If it died, put it to the side to be fixed, if it survived put it in a car to be sold. Can anyone else confirm this?
cheers julian
A boss of mine went to the holden motor factory a few years back ( hes not a car guy ) but he told me a story that after the motors had been fully assembled one guys job was to wire it up and start each motor and run it flat stick for ten minutes. If it died, put it to the side to be fixed, if it survived put it in a car to be sold. Can anyone else confirm this?
cheers julian
great reponses.
With all the viariables that have come up still begs the question why can't they do this before it get to you?
I know that technically it would be "2nd hand" but when you buy a brand new car your not the first person to turn it over its done on the factory line.
It would be so simple to simulate an engine setup and run the cam in
#23
_The Stig_
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Posted 14 December 2008 - 01:13 PM
With a Chevy it's easy to solve the oil pressure issue, by removing the dizzy and using a "primer" dizzy without the cam gear (someone makes these), and drive the dizzy shaft (the right way) with an electric drill. Not sure how you can do this with a Holden engine though short of having a made up bolt in "dummy" pump with a drive shaft hanging out the back of the pump.
I've actually wound up a bit of oil pressure manually, with a screwdriver. Obviously not full system pressure, but you can definately fill the system this way, and it doesn't take a lot of time either. Remove the pressure sender and turn the oil pump shaft till oil starts squirting out. Put it back in and turn it a bit more, you can feel the extra resistance there. Not quite the same as using a drill and dummy dizzy, but close, and better than nothing...Instant oil pressure as soon as you hit the starter!
I wouldn't be too concerned about wiping off the lube by cranking the motor over with the plugs removed though. Any half decent cam lube should be able to hang in there long enough for that - better than running the engine for 30 or 40 secs with no oil pressure whatsoever. JMHO.
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