20 replies to this topic

[Rockoz]

Ive read through a lot of threads about upgrading the front brakes on LH/LXs.
From what Ive read, clearance around the tie rod end and ball joints is the main issue.
Ive come across a set up that will see the disc and caliper mounted further outboard, but still retaining pretty much the same track.
Are the ball joints tie rod ends the only issues, or is there more to investigate?

[Litre8]

Caliper contacting the rim/rim centre would be one possible issue.

[Rockoz]

Looked at rim clearance and will need late commodore style rims.
Been checking out a few ideas for what I intend to do to my car, and it will entail flares, and looking at the 8 and 10 inch rims, so far I think caliper clearance shouldnt be an issue.
Will of course need 18 or 19 inch wheels, but would expect that with 360 plus diameter discs.

Edited by Rockoz, 31 January 2009 - 09:32 PM.

[dattoman]

Bigger the disc... the further the caliper is from the tierod ends and stub
Depends how big the caliper is that you use though doesn't it

[TerrA LX]

From what Ive read, clearance around the tie rod end and ball joints is the main issue.

Are the ball joints tie rod ends the only issues, or is there more to investigate?

Im a lil confused here, there is some HQ-HZ conversions that may need clearence for the tierod, no big deal here, but please show me the thread where there is issues with ball joints?

[Rockoz]

Are the A9X type steering arms used because of clearance issues?
What I am looking at gives the disc and caliper more clearance with the suspension than standard set up.
Will probably swap stubs from side to side, but may not have to.

[TerrA LX]

Are the A9X type steering arms used because of clearance issues?

These are used when the HQ-HZ stubs are used to correctly align the tierod to the rack.


What I am looking at gives the disc and caliper more clearance with the suspension than standard set up.

Show us


Will probably swap stubs from side to side, but may not have to.

If using the HQ-HZ stubs you will have to to mount the caliper at the front otherwise you either
a, loose too much lock or
b, hit the control are with the caliper.
Again, no big deal here, people been doing it for years.

Edited by ALX76, 01 February 2009 - 08:52 AM.

[antelopeslr5000]

As dattoman has already mentioned, it depends on what caliper/disc combo you intend on using. You don't necessarily have to mount the caliper at the front when using HQ-HZ stub axles (or any suitable stub axles).

I found that I had to swap stub axles from left to right and have the calipers mounted in a trailing position. This allowed my setup to achieve full lock as I had an issue with the caliper fouling the tie rod end when mounted in a leading position. If I rotated the caliper around the disc to try and eliminate it fouling the tie rod end, the caliper would then foul the upper control arm before full lock. Rear mounted caliper worked best for me.

[Rockoz]

Clear up some stuff.
By ball joints, I meant the area of the control arms around the ball joints.
What I have been looking at is using VE HSV Front rotors with AP 6 spot calipers.
At this stage Im looking at mounting these on a modified LX front hub.

The inboard side of the caliper is about 30mm in from the inside edge of the standard disc.
Ive yet to pull the spring and shock out of my front end, but at full down, the closest point of the suspension appears to be the lower control arm at about 40mm clearance from the back of the disc. So on that basis there should be around 10mm clearance. In the process of doing a mock up, but am doubtful I will have success mounting it on the front, due to the physical size of the caliper. Also playing with CAD and plotting stuff hoping to create a 3D model

[dattoman]

VE offset will mean the caliper is very close to the wheel face
Not really good for picking wheels with clearance unless your going for the HSV wheels to suit which I think are 19's
The offsets of the wheels might not do you any favours either if you want it to actually steer

I personally wouldn't go over 330mm and 4 pot AP;s (CP5200 not the cheaper 6000 series calipers) for a street driven Torana

Too big and you'll never keep enough heat in them to work efficiently

I'd personally stick with 4 pots front and rear
330mm front 315mm rear
Thats what I had planned

[Rockoz]

Thanks for that Dattoman. How is your setup for suspension clearance?
Are you using the standard conversion hubs?
My thinking behind this was to keep original front end components, and not have clearance issues.
Also by the time I actually come to do it Im guessing the selection of wheels for VE will be greater.
With an SS wheel on my arrangement (245/45/18), there will be about 20mm extra outboard of a standard tyre/rim combo and about an extra 35mm inboard. As I was intending to run flares, there would be a change in offset to suit.
What are the issues with steering and offset?
And while I have your attention, radial mounting of calipers? Do you have a pic?

[dattoman]

Radial mount is the best way
I'll try to dig up some pics

This setup is on the_gts car
Its a standard VT style conversion hub as used on early Commys when fitting VT brakes
You could just use the DBA019 disc which is all one piece but we didn't want that
Phil has these mounted on the front of his stubs (CRS Drop spindles)
He made his own radial mount and it clears everything
Ask him how it drives and stops

Ozyoztozy also has the same caliper and 2 piece disc on his silver sedan too (on I believe HQ or Torana stubs)
He's around here somewhere

Phil runs Commodore wheels and Ozy runs Simmons copies
They both use this caliper radially mounted on the front
Ozy does abit of track work and swears by his brakes (best money spend on the car.... huge drop in lap times)

Big wheels need big forearms to turn them.... especially at low speeds

[Rockoz]

Thanks again Dattoman. I havent made a final decision on sizes and calipers yet. What I am currently doing is getting CAD drawings put together of different calipers from wherever I can get the details. I can then look at different combos. Got the AP and Alcon caliper dimensions so far. Will get wheel data as well to put on. Just something top do whilst I cant work on the car.
The big wheel issue isnt a problem. Actually like the size of the wheels on the ROH site. Im able to generate pretty good torque from the forearms. But also checking out the power steering thread as well.

[ozyozyozy]

here i am, dont have much accsess to the net at mo. im using the hq stubs with harrop a9x arms. caliper mounted on the trailing side. had to make minor adjustment to top control arm and bumpstop, easily done. as dattoman said, any bigger brakes, they dont heat up enough.
good luck with 19inch wheels on the front of a torana.

[Rockoz]

here i am, dont have much accsess to the net at mo. im using the hq stubs with harrop a9x arms. caliper mounted on the trailing side. had to make minor adjustment to top control arm and bumpstop, easily done. as dattoman said, any bigger brakes, they dont heat up enough.
good luck with 19inch wheels on the front of a torana.

The bits that I have read, mainly on Hoppers site says that changing to HQ stubs etc changes the geometry. Not something advisable? Some say its OK others say its not good.
What the VE route does is bring larger discs into play without changing suspension or grinding bits.
Could go to VE 6 cyl brakes at 300mm or SS at 321mm or with 2 piece discs, pretty much any size.

What would be the issue with 19 on the front? This is the type of info I want.
Realise that with huge brakes i will need to go to made to order wheels.

May never get to the stage of doing it, but due to a couple of problems, Im a bit limited in the physical work, so spending time measuring and checking.

[dattoman]

19 is a physically large wheel
Even 17's will foul on flares , inner body , etc ..... and it won't be a terribly pleasant ride... 17's is big enough
Keeps abit of body in the tyre to help the suspension
19's would be rubber bands around alloy that don't provide much shock absorption... and 30 yr old suspension isn't pliable like late model stuff
It will be an uncomfortable ride for any length of time

Now.... stick with Torana stubs.. since its radial mount you can put the caliper on any stub
The earlier commodore disc is 83mm top to bottom.. the VE is very shallow like a Ford... I believe the caliper being so close to the wheel limits choice so why use it ? I don't actually see the point at this stage
Also VE runs 14mm studs so bit of a pain playing around with studs ahead if you go that route.
I prefer to use the earlier 330mm disc as it leaves alot more room.
Doesn't foul on anything and is a nice package as above

Bigger isn't always better especially for brakes

[Rockoz]

Thanks again Dattoman.
So the DBA 019 from the VNs with some radial calipers, 4 or 6 spot calipers would be a good setup?
Only reason I looked at the VE was to increase the caliper to suspension clearance. It gives an extra 30mm over the DBA 019
Understand that the ride quality would suffer if I went that big.
Will take all info on board.
At this stage I am still looking for ideas for the finished car, and I can see some track work in its future.
Thanks again for the info.