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RED vs BLUE vs BLACK

Started by _Torrie_Man_ , Feb 19 2009 09:32 PM

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12 replies to this topic

#1 _Torrie_Man_

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:32 PM

gday all, im just wanting to know the differences between the 6 cylinder red, blue and black motors? What would be suitable for a nice little build up? Do blue motor extractor fit into a torana? Im wanting to build a tuff six to smash about in while my cars away at the panel beaters, its been sitting for so long i just want to drive the tits off it when it gets back! I know the basics, red motor 9 port head, blue and black 12 port etc any info would be appreciated
power figures?
Build prices?

Cheers Johnno :spoton:

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#2 FastEHHolden

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:26 PM

Black is the best starting block...the extractors do fit but you may have to get the bit down at the lower flange bent upwards...some can scrape the ground.

You biggest problem with puting blues and blacks in Toranas (esp your LH) is that you run the risk of getting knocked at rego for pollution gear..technically your black engine must have all its pollution gear fitted and functional. Same if you fit 350 Holley (or any non standard carby) to a red in a Torana...Its why I drive EH's...you have a lot more freedom.

That said..cheapest and easiest route is decent cam, bigger/more carb(s), YT head and decent exhaust for your red...its going to get you (in a perfect world) about 135 ish HP at the wheels for you average run of the mill 202...sounds low but its not....and the best bit is it shouldn't cost you more than about $1500

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#3 rodomo

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 12:06 AM

Red block same era as your car.
Blue/black crank and rods.
VC Blue head (no airpump) adapt 2 barrel to blue manifold, use blue ex. manifold (headers) and twin engine pipes

OR!! VK E.F.I head and accesories! :spoton:

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#4 _Squarepants_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 03:43 PM

Red block same era as your car.
Blue/black crank and rods.

As far as I understood a blue crank needs its rear main seal journal ground down to fit a red block. I was given one a while ago and the bloke said that was what he did to it. I still have it and can't see myself using it any time soon if anyone is interested in it, along with a set of blue rods???
I have also heard that the red 3.3 blocks are the go (some UC's and early H series had them I think, I've only ever seen one at the wreckers), a bit beefier in the areas that count.
I have also heard that black cranks have bigger bearing journals.
I don't know how reliable any of this information is so anyone who can verify or denounce any of these points is welcome to join the conversation, I'd kind of like to know for sure myself.

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#5 _Drag lc_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:21 PM

squrepants,
you would only be machining down the counterweighted crank if it was going in a neopreane 202 block.

I have also heard that black cranks have bigger bearing journals.
i think all non grey motors had the same bend bearing and i think only the 173 and 202 3.3 cranks have the same main size 186 and smaller have smaller mains. but some one will know for sure if i am not right?.

Thanks Hayden

Edited by Drag lc, 20 February 2009 - 04:23 PM.

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#6 _Squarepants_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:43 PM

Bend bearing??? :huh:

I've never heard that expression, please elaborate.

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#7 _Drag lc_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 04:54 PM

Big end bearing

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#8 _oldjohnno_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:23 PM

i think only the 173 and 202 3.3 cranks have the same main size 186 and smaller have smaller mains. but some one will know for sure if i am not right?.

Thanks Hayden

As far as I know the red 173s had the small main journals while the later blue 173s (with 2.8 cast into the side of the block) used the 202 main journal size.

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#9 rodomo

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:35 PM

Yes, according to the ACL site all 202's (3.3 inc.) and blue 2850 (173) use the same mains. 173 red are a different number.

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#10 _gtrtorana_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 08:43 PM

Some black cranks have factory dowels for the fly but have a weak snout (balancer end) Blue cranks are stronger in the snout area but you need to dowel flywheel to this crank or it will shake it loose (found this out the hard way) You can fit a blue/black crank in red block as long as they use a common rear main seal. (My blue crank fits in my red block because both original engines run a rope rear main). Main and big end size are the same for all 202 engines.

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#11 _Torrie_Man_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 09:56 PM

so whats involved in adapting a blue/black head to a red motor? Ive heard theres a little more involved than slapping it on. All feed back is very helpfull!

Thanks, Johnno :spoton:

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#12 _Torrie_Man_

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 10:03 PM

You biggest problem with puting blues and blacks in Toranas (esp your LH) is that you run the risk of getting knocked at rego for pollution gear..technically your black engine must have all its pollution gear fitted and functional. Same if you fit 350 Holley (or any non standard carby) to a red in a Torana...Its why I drive EH's...you have a lot more freedom.

My LH is pre-pollution gear though, does that mean i still have to carry over the pollution bits with the motor?

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#13 FastEHHolden

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:39 PM

You could quite happily use a pre pollution red...but if you used a later engine "technically" you have to use the pollution gear applicable to that engine....I say "technically" but many people get away with it.