Might look at a draw thru setup for my torrie which i have never done before i was looking at a t28 or a t03 and i come across this on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com....em=220424608619
i think would be a good size for a 202 or 186
Specs:
. 50 a/r compressor
.63 a/r turbine
.57 trim
Turbine wheel:
Exducer: 2.48"
Mayor : 2.89"
Compressor wheel :
Exducer: 2.07"
Mayor : 2.36"
i have done the calculator on a web site and these specs are close for a 202CID can anyone tell me if these are anygood im not spending huge amounts on this engine and will be making my own manifolds ect if i had the money to buy a $1000 turbo it would be blow thru and engine made for big HP. anyways looking at using 2 175CD carbs i have off a range rover and were could i get a decomp plate. was also thinking of water injection which i could rig up thru an adjustbale pressure switch which would kick in at a certain boost?
oh yeah and does anyone know were i could get a carbon seal for this type of turbo?
As i want to go turbo my tripple strombergs set up and rattrap clutch linkage will be for sale off my LC if anyone may be intersested just PM me
cheers dan
right sized turbo
Started by
_bundybluedog_
, Jun 05 2009 07:59 AM
14 replies to this topic
#2
_bundybluedog_
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 08:20 AM
It will be a stock 202 bottom end with a yella terra head and crow said they will custom grind a turbo cam. would it make much diferance over the stock cam? as its not gunna be a drag car.
#3
_mumstaxi_
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 06:38 PM
First of all i would advise you do more homework before you use ANY ebay/china Turbo, some have made good power with them, but they have also been reported to have many failures.
We always ran a T04 for the street, .60 comp & .58 rear housing, not laggy on a 186 or 202 ,and a bit of headroom if you want to go fast a bit later on
You can make huge HP with strombergs or SUs, I started with a 175 CD stromberg (single) on my turbo 186 and it was a dog to drive, moved to a weber and it got a bit better, then fitted a holley and then in drove great just like a stocker off boost,and went faster too.
Water/Methanol INJ is a good idea, and can allow you to run more boost (make more HP), the best way is to get the all ENG running nice and as hard as it can "first" (without ping) and then add W/M with more boost afterwards.
A decent Turbo grind cam will make a big difference and well worth the investment in my opinion.
MT
We always ran a T04 for the street, .60 comp & .58 rear housing, not laggy on a 186 or 202 ,and a bit of headroom if you want to go fast a bit later on
You can make huge HP with strombergs or SUs, I started with a 175 CD stromberg (single) on my turbo 186 and it was a dog to drive, moved to a weber and it got a bit better, then fitted a holley and then in drove great just like a stocker off boost,and went faster too.
Water/Methanol INJ is a good idea, and can allow you to run more boost (make more HP), the best way is to get the all ENG running nice and as hard as it can "first" (without ping) and then add W/M with more boost afterwards.
A decent Turbo grind cam will make a big difference and well worth the investment in my opinion.
MT
#4
_bundybluedog_
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 05 June 2009 - 10:28 PM
Thanks for that mumstaxi i think i will avoid the chinesse turbo. what engine did your turbo come off or was it made to order?
dan
dan
#5
_bundybluedog_
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 06 June 2009 - 08:44 AM
what sized holley did you use and why was the CD so hard to drive with.
#6
_UCV80_
_UCV80_
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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:29 AM
i was told once if you go draw through you need to get a special seal or somthing in the turbo??? you might want to check up on that
#7
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:44 AM
yes its a carbon seal replaces the ring type seal, its because you have a manifold and carby infront of the turbo which can create a vacume when not in boost which draws oil thru the turbo from the lube line causeing the engine to burn the oil and blow smoke. only happens on draw thru.
#8
Peter UC
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Posted 06 June 2009 - 09:05 PM
Does anyone know if you can get moden ball bearing turbos with a carbon seal? I'm planning a draw through LPG set up on a Holden 6 with an old NormalAir Garret kit for the UC.
#9
_mumstaxi_
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 07 June 2009 - 11:40 AM
Thanks for that mumstaxi i think i will avoid the chinesse turbo. what engine did your turbo come off or was it made to order?
dan
Ha-Ha, not much i ever had back then was "made to order" stuff was "made", usually from what bits i could find from the hardware shop.... my turbo did not come off any factory car, i started playing with Turbos back in the 90s when it was not popular or "cool" to have a Turbo street car.
When i got my first Turbo (Air research, T04) things like ET pulsars & stock VL Turbos are the sort of things getting around with factory turbos, and not to many people liked them much back then, they were seen as unreliable (when boosted) and not fast at all compared to most V8s.....
what sized holley did you use and why was the CD so hard to drive with.
The Holley i ran was a 600vac sec, this may seem large , and trust me back then heaps of people said "its to big for a six", but i actually had to drill out the rear metering plate to keep enough fuel up to it on full song, plus i had water methanol INJ and heaps of other bodgey things to stop it detonating ,to be honest I think the engine would have loved a 800 Holley, but never got to try one .
Even when i explained that on full boost a 3ltr ENG could "effectivly" double its capacity (so wants the same fuel of a 6ltr ENG) some poeple could not get their head around it all.
I like my engines to drive nice,Im maybe a little hard on the old strommie, but dumping it was the best thing i did, (compared to a holly on the Turbo ENG) it was annoying to drive as street car.
ill try to explain best i can.......
On the freeway it was fine on open throttle, squeeze it on and it went quite nice, but from the lights, or in perticular through roundabouts it was worst.
you cruise into a roundabout a low speed under brakes or off throttle, you would put your foot down to drive out/through the roundabout and nothing would happen (best described as lag) so after virtually "rolling" out of the corner and back on the straight (with the accelerator still in the same position) the car starts to speed up, then more speed (without moving foot) then more speed until you find you now have to back off, then ease back onto the throttle to maintain a steady speed again.
Fitting a Holley with no other changes (other than required for carby change) the car then drove through roundabouts with the same responce as a "standard" 186/202 when off boost, and just bolting the carby on the ENG got more air/fuel and went HEAPS harder, it did then use more fuel of course, but drove great and was still cheaper to run than a V8 that went as fast.
Tiny by todays standards....but back then everyone said ^"man thats a BIG Turbo"^ (ha-ha) the thing is, thats what they say about the Turbo i have "now" (GT4294r) makes me wonder what size Turbo i might have in another 10 yrs time
MT
#10
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 08 June 2009 - 10:01 AM
Thanks for all your help MT what inlet manifold is that? and what sorta 1/4 mile times did you run? and another question were did you run your vacume lines to for you brakes and dizzy.
cheers dan
cheers dan
#11
_Torana308_
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Posted 08 June 2009 - 03:33 PM
As MT said steer clear of the Ebay turbos, I have a mate who went through two of them in a month ( and cost him more than buying a Garrett ball bearing turbo) before he switched to a Garrett ball bearing one anyway. This meant cutting up some of his freshly HPC coated pipe work
Some guys are having success with some of them but it seems very hit and miss. If I was going to all the time and effort to build something like this up I wouldn't want to be doing this twice or three times. They usually can not be rebuilt either which means if it does leak oil or anything fails then you are up for a new turbo.
If you are looking to buy a decent turbo for the setup just let me know and I will see what I can do to help you out.
Some guys are having success with some of them but it seems very hit and miss. If I was going to all the time and effort to build something like this up I wouldn't want to be doing this twice or three times. They usually can not be rebuilt either which means if it does leak oil or anything fails then you are up for a new turbo.
If you are looking to buy a decent turbo for the setup just let me know and I will see what I can do to help you out.
#12
_mumstaxi_
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 08 June 2009 - 05:40 PM
Totally talk to Pete ^ (Torana308) if you want a "new" Turbo, i doubt you will buy any better than what he can offer.
Manifold was the strada 2 with a custom modification (pipe work) to help improve flow and avoid fuel "pooling" in 3&4 cyl, and it also made changing the silicone hose easy.
My 1/4 times suffered back then due to the car set up (as they still do today) and did not do justice to the amount of fun i had, i only ever raced in sleeper spec when i had 175 tyres with a open centre diff and it ran a 13.1 but @ 107 MPH.
Brake vacuum line is the thick red hose (in the pic) going from a fitting just in front of the turbo compressor housing over to the brake booster, i found this point generated the strongest vacuum without ever seeing positive pressure (boost) and also ran a feed for the modulator hose for the auto gear change signal.
Most "turbo" people would, and said to "lock" the dizzy, but i found running vac advance made exhaust temps lower and made the car more drivable off boost, i did modify the "mechanical" advance in the dizzy to limit it to around 3000rpm tho.
Nowadays you should be able to do things a bit better, when i built the eng i had no knowledge (still don't) no help and bad advisement from others and with no internet, any information was from a few books and mostly trial and many errors, it was all done backyard with limited buget.
Having said that, even just recently i have discovered my turbo sleeper has left a memorable impression on a amazing number of people who can still remember it from all those years ago (so much for stealth factor) he-he
MT
Manifold was the strada 2 with a custom modification (pipe work) to help improve flow and avoid fuel "pooling" in 3&4 cyl, and it also made changing the silicone hose easy.
My 1/4 times suffered back then due to the car set up (as they still do today) and did not do justice to the amount of fun i had, i only ever raced in sleeper spec when i had 175 tyres with a open centre diff and it ran a 13.1 but @ 107 MPH.
Brake vacuum line is the thick red hose (in the pic) going from a fitting just in front of the turbo compressor housing over to the brake booster, i found this point generated the strongest vacuum without ever seeing positive pressure (boost) and also ran a feed for the modulator hose for the auto gear change signal.
Most "turbo" people would, and said to "lock" the dizzy, but i found running vac advance made exhaust temps lower and made the car more drivable off boost, i did modify the "mechanical" advance in the dizzy to limit it to around 3000rpm tho.
Nowadays you should be able to do things a bit better, when i built the eng i had no knowledge (still don't) no help and bad advisement from others and with no internet, any information was from a few books and mostly trial and many errors, it was all done backyard with limited buget.
Having said that, even just recently i have discovered my turbo sleeper has left a memorable impression on a amazing number of people who can still remember it from all those years ago (so much for stealth factor)
he-heMT
#13
_bundybluedog_
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Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:28 PM
im looking at buying a turbo so torana308 just waiting on the turbo specs and i will drop you an email cheers.
what type of boost will a stock red bottom end take and were could i get a decomp plate?
i was looking at making an adapter to bolt the turbo right onto a 186S manifold and using a blue motor exaust manifold and re orientate the turbo and make exaust piping to suit. im a fitter and turner by trade and have access to mills and lathes also tig welders and pipe and tube benders which makes life easier.
would a 4 barrel manifold work better? and should there be a certain shape to my holley manifold, thought i would just make one out of ally sheets and tube and weld it to a holley adapter plate.
pick all the problems in this setup please..
what type of boost will a stock red bottom end take and were could i get a decomp plate?
i was looking at making an adapter to bolt the turbo right onto a 186S manifold and using a blue motor exaust manifold and re orientate the turbo and make exaust piping to suit. im a fitter and turner by trade and have access to mills and lathes also tig welders and pipe and tube benders which makes life easier.
would a 4 barrel manifold work better? and should there be a certain shape to my holley manifold, thought i would just make one out of ally sheets and tube and weld it to a holley adapter plate.
pick all the problems in this setup please..
#14
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 10 June 2009 - 11:10 PM
You can have great succes with a de-compression plate, but If you can avoid the de-comp plate it will be better, and then you only need one head gasket etc, if you dont want to spend $$ on dished pistons or custom head to decompress the eng you can always do the old 202 pistons in a 186 (what i did) and it will give you around 7.5:1 depending on the head.
Its not a question of what boost a stock bottom end will "take", it depends on compression ratio and timing ,you can run 25psi (my mate ran 27psi for a while) through a standard bottom end on a decompressed engine, as long as it does not "ping", the main reason the engine will destroy itself is through detonation, this and a few other things are the main killers of a boosted engine, not the actual boost pressure itself as a figure.
The fact that the engine may stay "together" running high boost on a standard bottom end ,does not mean it will "last", it stands to reason that you are subjecting the engine (bearings etc) to loads it was not designed to take, bigger the loads more/faster wear = failure, how long it lasts ? and can you tune it and drive it so it never pings ? 
What you are doing can work fine ,and with your skills you should be laughing, just stick to all the normal priciples of flow as a basic guide to pipe work etc
and make sure you put up some pic's for everyone when you get started
MT
Its not a question of what boost a stock bottom end will "take", it depends on compression ratio and timing ,you can run 25psi (my mate ran 27psi for a while) through a standard bottom end on a decompressed engine, as long as it does not "ping", the main reason the engine will destroy itself is through detonation, this and a few other things are the main killers of a boosted engine, not the actual boost pressure itself as a figure.
The fact that the engine may stay "together" running high boost on a standard bottom end ,does not mean it will "last", it stands to reason that you are subjecting the engine (bearings etc) to loads it was not designed to take, bigger the loads more/faster wear = failure, how long it lasts ?
and can you tune it and drive it so it never pings ? What you are doing can work fine ,and with your skills you should be laughing, just stick to all the normal priciples of flow as a basic guide to pipe work etc
and make sure you put up some pic's for everyone when you get started
MT
#15
_beergut_
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Posted 17 June 2009 - 11:13 PM
bit off topic but check out issue 36 of aussie muscle car
for how holden was thinking of doing this in the late 70's
for how holden was thinking of doing this in the late 70's
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