can anyone tell me how to do this in a six cyl trimatic
how to manualize a trimatic
Started by
_wildsix_
, Jun 11 2009 12:53 PM
21 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 01:31 PM
this is a bit off topic but was that you selling the sideplates made from machined alliminium with flames on them and wild six ingraved in em? if so are they still for sale?
#3
_Phantom10_
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 07:47 PM
By getting a full manual valve body, it will require clutchless shifting
Edited by Phantom10, 12 June 2009 - 08:00 PM.
#4
GML-31
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 08:07 PM
and whenever you change gears at low revs its like getting a kick up the arse
#5
_Phantom10_
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 08:36 PM
lol yea.. screw that im gettin a Stg II shift kit.. so much easier
#6
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 10:23 PM
By getting a full manual valve body, it will require clutchless shifting
could you explain that one a bit more ?
and whenever you change gears at low revs its like getting a kick up the arse
This is true for many worked autos
As i understand it, converting to manual valve body increases the line pressure to maximum psi ,100% of the time, a lot of performace engines can make bulk torque without full acceleration and the gearbox clutches can slip due to lower clamping/line pressure in cruise conditions.
The manual valve body will maintain clutch pressure as if at full throttle, this does make the gearchange harder/firmer but if the box and stall are set up correct this does not have to be a "harsh" thing to drive at low or any RPMs,i think the problem is a lot of the time the customer will ask a gearbox shop for a "hard" gear change, not realising that slaming the clappers out of the drivetrain with each shift (often chirping the tyres) does not make the car any faster at all.
I did hear a "rumor" once,that all a gearbox shop has to do when converting a auto to have a manual valve body, is as simple as removing a ball bearing and drilling/plugging a hole in the oil galleries ???
MT
#7
_Herne_
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Posted 12 June 2009 - 10:35 PM
When I use my B & M Quicksilver in FULL ratchet mode the gear changes can be harsh but there is a way to avoid this.
Redslur has driven my car (hard) and noticed the difference when I showed him what I do.
My advice is to give the throttle a quick rev ( a jab) on down changes..... It smoothes the gear change out significantly and is not hard to learn with a bit of practice, although I have never driven a car with a manualised box I imagine the quick jab would also work in that situation. I thought about having the valve body manualised but am wondering if its really much different to what I already do when in FULL ratchet mode.
The quicksilvers when set up correctly have two modes, one is full auto and the other is manual.
Just some food for thought.
Cheers
Herne
Redslur has driven my car (hard) and noticed the difference when I showed him what I do.
My advice is to give the throttle a quick rev ( a jab) on down changes..... It smoothes the gear change out significantly and is not hard to learn with a bit of practice, although I have never driven a car with a manualised box I imagine the quick jab would also work in that situation. I thought about having the valve body manualised but am wondering if its really much different to what I already do when in FULL ratchet mode.
The quicksilvers when set up correctly have two modes, one is full auto and the other is manual.
Just some food for thought.
Cheers
Herne
#8
_Drag lc_
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 07:54 AM
Hi, i know very little about autos but have converted 6cyl trimatics to full manual shift before and as mumstaxi said above yes it is only a matter of more drillings and removing some items in circuit but it is quite involved when you get into it.
Herne if you put your shifter into top gear at a stop then hit throttle to floor will it take off in top gear or will it change back to a lower gear ?
if you are after a hard shifting (full pressure to clutch packs just remove the modulator line so then the tranny thinks you are full throttle all the time?.
Thanks Hayden
Herne if you put your shifter into top gear at a stop then hit throttle to floor will it take off in top gear or will it change back to a lower gear ?
if you are after a hard shifting (full pressure to clutch packs just remove the modulator line so then the tranny thinks you are full throttle all the time?.
Thanks Hayden
#9
Heath
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 08:29 AM
I think you will find the same problem with that. Being a young hoon, I've been in loads of my mate's cars with 'Stage II' Shift Kits, and I reckon they are a kinda pointless mod, at 1/6th throttle from 1st to 2nd gear, it's ridiculous. But autos do get sloppy over the years. The vehicles I've been in that apparantly have 'Stage I' Shift Kits seem to be a bit more on the money. If I wanted a proper auto I would fully manualise it, otherwise I would just have it rebuilt.lol yea.. screw that im gettin a Stg II shift kit.. so much easier
But with the amount of power than you have, don't even bother with autos; chuck a manual in there and call it a day.
#10
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:50 AM
snip
Herne if you put your shifter into top gear at a stop then hit throttle to floor will it take off in top gear or will it change back to a lower gear ?
snip
Thanks Hayden
I believe it changes back when in full auto mode, I dont believe it changes back from top to first in ratchet mode but I fail to see why I would try that stunt anyway, when I use ratchet mode I am in race mode myself and there is no way in hell that I am going to try and take off in top gear.....with a ratchet shifter such as the quicksilver there is no way you can confuse top with first
In ratchet mode YOU choose your shift points not the box.I am obviously missing the point of your question here.
Cheers
Herne
#11
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 07:50 PM
Herne, How do you switch from "auto mode" to "manual mode", do you just pull it back from 3rd (or drive) to first gear ?
I think the point Drag lc is raising, is the fact that the "shifter" does not switch the "gearbox" from auto to a manual shift, (unless its tiptronic) a ratchet or "bang" shifter (such as B&M) allows driver to change gears without the risk overshooting and hitting the wrong gear (or neutral), but won't change the way the actual gearbox changes anymore than the standard shifter could (just alot better to drive with a ratchet shifter)
Unless it has a manual valve body the gearbox is still going to be a auto and will change up and down by itself, but by manually holding the shifter back in a low gear (eg 1st gear) this will stop the gearbox from changing to second untill you pop second, and may seem as if it changes harder than normal when you do.
When you have a auto (regardless of shifter) if you come to a set of lights and you have the shifter in top or 3rd, your gearbox automatically goes back to first ready to drive away from a standstill, with a manualised auto ,if you stop in top and don't manually pull the shifter back to first the box will take off in top.
MT
I think the point Drag lc is raising, is the fact that the "shifter" does not switch the "gearbox" from auto to a manual shift, (unless its tiptronic) a ratchet or "bang" shifter (such as B&M) allows driver to change gears without the risk overshooting and hitting the wrong gear (or neutral), but won't change the way the actual gearbox changes anymore than the standard shifter could (just alot better to drive with a ratchet shifter)
Unless it has a manual valve body the gearbox is still going to be a auto and will change up and down by itself, but by manually holding the shifter back in a low gear (eg 1st gear) this will stop the gearbox from changing to second untill you pop second, and may seem as if it changes harder than normal when you do.
When you have a auto (regardless of shifter) if you come to a set of lights and you have the shifter in top or 3rd, your gearbox automatically goes back to first ready to drive away from a standstill, with a manualised auto ,if you stop in top and don't manually pull the shifter back to first the box will take off in top.
MT
#12
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:05 PM
Herne, How do you switch from "auto mode" to "manual mode", do you just pull it back from 3rd (or drive) to first gear ?
I think the point Drag lc is raising, is the fact that the "shifter" does not switch the "gearbox" from auto to a manual shift, (unless its tiptronic) a ratchet or "bang" shifter (such as B&M) allows driver to change gears without the risk overshooting and hitting the wrong gear (or neutral), but won't change the way the actual gearbox changes anymore than the standard shifter could (just alot better to drive with a ratchet shifter)
Unless it has a manual valve body the gearbox is still going to be a auto and will change up and down by itself, but by manually holding the shifter back in a low gear (eg 1st gear) this will stop the gearbox from changing to second untill you pop second, and may seem as if it changes harder than normal when you do.
When you have a auto (regardless of shifter) if you come to a set of lights and you have the shifter in top or 3rd, your gearbox automatically goes back to first ready to drive away from a standstill, with a manualised auto ,if you stop in top and don't manually pull the shifter back to first the box will take off in top.
MT
Without sounding smug I think you really need to try or experience a Quicksliver shifter, as I have stated when properly installed it has two modes, the first mode is lift and pull back through reverse, neutral and into auto, ie drive if you like.... Its then a full auto gearbox/shifter combo. This all happens very close to the park position on the shifter, not further down the selector panel.
To use the second mode, (ratchet) you lift as before and come all the way back down the selector panel to second and drop it in, this selects ratchet mode...... from there you pull back to first (bang if you like) and tramp it or do whatever you like and it will not change gear until you bang it through to second, presumably same applies from second to third but as yet have not need max revs in second to find out. I dont get into third when doing local hillclimbs.
Mine does not automatically change gears at all when in ratchet mode.... I cant stress this enough.
Like I said I use full auto mode when daily cruising/driving. When on the track I use full ratchet and do the changes myself.
Hope that makes it clear, if not come meet me and I will give you a practical demo.
EDIT:I am not saying this is how to manualise and auto gearbox, I am saying this is what works on mine To the best of my knowledge my gearbox has been modified with a double diaphragm. When I added my first post I stated I was thinking of getting the valve body fully manualised but I cant see the need in my particular application. Whether or how this works for others is something I don't know
Cheers
Herne
Edited by Herne, 13 June 2009 - 09:16 PM.
#13
boomfunk
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:18 PM
Herne, i do understand what your saying..its a similar shifter to a star shifter, like what i had in my old torry..with 308, same thing ratchet or auto..
However i can do that in my vk comm with standard factory shifter... stick it in 1 and it wont change till i put it to second
When i had a 6 in a torry with full manual box, i had to physicaly shift to 1st to get it to go to 1st otherwise it would stay in 3rd
However i can do that in my vk comm with standard factory shifter... stick it in 1 and it wont change till i put it to second
When i had a 6 in a torry with full manual box, i had to physicaly shift to 1st to get it to go to 1st otherwise it would stay in 3rd
#14
wot179
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:27 PM
As a side note,when I was dragracing,my burnouts were always performed in the water in top gear,whether with a Toploader(lotsa revs,sidestep),full manual th400 or full manual glide.
Shift kitted autos had to be shifted;it was not possible to turn the tyres from scratch in top gear.
Shift kitted autos had to be shifted;it was not possible to turn the tyres from scratch in top gear.
#15
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:47 PM
Herne, i do understand what your saying..its a similar shifter to a star shifter, like what i had in my old torry..with 308, same thing ratchet or auto..
However i can do that in my vk comm with standard factory shifter... stick it in 1 and it wont change till i put it to second
When i had a 6 in a torry with full manual box, i had to physicaly shift to 1st to get it to go to 1st otherwise it would stay in 3rd
Hi Boomfunk, with the std VK commy setup was it at all possible to pass through second into third - by accident?
Its certainly NOT possible with the Quicksilver in ratchet mode.
I remember when I had the HQ shifter in my torry and with it it was very possible to manually pass from first into third straight through second by accident. This is something I did not want
Cheers
Herne
#16
Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:49 PM
I believe its possible to modify most autos so that they no longer provide the safety of changing gears in extreme situations, such as trying to take off in top, or knocking back to first at too high a speed. Thus it will still provide normal operation in drive, but can act somewhat like a manualised trans when desired. Sounds like this is what has been done to yours?Mine does not automatically change gears at all when in ratchet mode.... I cant stress this enough.
#17
boomfunk
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:52 PM
with standard shifter i've thrown it into reverse by accident...not good..but we talking g'boxes here not shifter...a manual box as stated wont go back to first unless you changed it into first
Wot made a good point
Wot made a good point
#18
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Posted 13 June 2009 - 09:57 PM
I believe its possible to modify most autos so that they no longer provide the safety of changing gears in extreme situations, such as trying to take off in top, or knocking back to first at too high a speed. Thus it will still provide normal operation in drive, but can act somewhat like a manualised trans when desired. Sounds like this is what has been done to yours?
Unfortunately I cant say, the trimatic box was modified by the previous owner and details are sketchy. I do remember him saying the box was modified and had a double diaphragm to the valve body???
Not sure what else was done. I wish I knew.
I recently thought my box was on the out but it turned out to be the stally and its too small for my application. When funds permit some changes will be made but it will have to be after Tasmania unless the stally drops its bundle before then lol
Cheers
herne
#19
_Drag lc_
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 07:21 AM
Herne,
you have a trimatic right?
so you are to scared to put it in top gear at a stop,crawl and stand on it?.that is also a good way to check actual stall speed of converter but never mind thats off topic!.
"Double diaphram" sure it wasnt a steel twin ring servo piston?.
mmmmmmmmmm i am yet to see an arangement like you are explaining but i still doubt you can have a full manual hyd system inside the tranny and then still have the std auto it would have to be a very very fancy valve body as alot of the stuff is removed permently from the circuit when one is converted to Full manual shift yes ive actually modified a std valve body and have also seen inside a few diffrent manual valve bodys from diffrent auto shops.
Herne have you seen what is removed from valve body when converted from std to full manual shift?
Thanks Hayden
you have a trimatic right?
so you are to scared to put it in top gear at a stop,crawl and stand on it?.that is also a good way to check actual stall speed of converter but never mind thats off topic!.
"Double diaphram" sure it wasnt a steel twin ring servo piston?.
mmmmmmmmmm i am yet to see an arangement like you are explaining but i still doubt you can have a full manual hyd system inside the tranny and then still have the std auto it would have to be a very very fancy valve body as alot of the stuff is removed permently from the circuit when one is converted to Full manual shift yes ive actually modified a std valve body and have also seen inside a few diffrent manual valve bodys from diffrent auto shops.
Herne have you seen what is removed from valve body when converted from std to full manual shift?
Thanks Hayden
#20
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 09:41 AM
Herne,
you have a trimatic right?
so you are to scared to put it in top gear at a stop,crawl and stand on it?.that is also a good way to check actual stall speed of converter but never mind thats off topic!.
"Double diaphram" sure it wasnt a steel twin ring servo piston?.
mmmmmmmmmm i am yet to see an arangement like you are explaining but i still doubt you can have a full manual hyd system inside the tranny and then still have the std auto it would have to be a very very fancy valve body as alot of the stuff is removed permently from the circuit when one is converted to Full manual shift yes ive actually modified a std valve body and have also seen inside a few diffrent manual valve bodys from diffrent auto shops.
Herne have you seen what is removed from valve body when converted from std to full manual shift?
Thanks Hayden
Yes mine is Trimatic
perhaps I am confused about the double diaphragm bit as it was a long time ago I was told. Twin ring servo piston sounds pretty right. (my bad) I remember double/twin something No I am not overly mechanically inclined and I have not seen the insides of a trimatic ever that I recall.
I have friends that do those kind of jobs
When I was young I used to work on my cars and friends cars, we always had one apart for something or another but the work was fairly basic and non of us from memory had auto's.Like I said the way to see mine is to have a drive
Any time.... I dont mind.Cheers
Herne
#21
_mumstaxi_
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 10:07 AM
(he-he) I have owned cars with rachet/bang shifters,mostly the B&M and Hurst brands, and have mates that (whos cars i also drive) that currently have them. 
Im first to put my hand up to say how good they are, but basicly what im saying is if you have a car with a standard auto gearbox and a standard shifter, and do no mods other than fit a "ratchet" shifter ,this with not change the way the gearbox operates, it just gives you a rachet shifter to select gears with (takes some human error out of racing)
Now your Gearbox Herne is obviously NOT standard and has been modified, and not suggesting it does not do what you are saying, but what i would like to know is, what has been done to make your gearbox change gears as you describe, if you don't think you have a manual valve body fitted ?
We need to take the "shifter" out of the picture, and look at what the gearbox does when left to change gears automatically, but not just left in Drive.
If you are happy to, next time you drive your car ,pull the shifter back manually into "Second" gear at the lights, then cruise off as normal , if the car takes off in first and you feel it change into second by itself without touching the shifter then you have a normal auto, if it feels like its very sluggish as you leave the line (less than a car lenth), pull it back to first and see if it picks up, (changes down a gear) if it does this you have the same situation as a manual valve bodied auto would react.
At the end of the day Herne, if you are happy with what you box does thats ALL that matters, ive just never heard of what you describe and would like to learn a bit more.
MT
Im first to put my hand up to say how good they are, but basicly what im saying is if you have a car with a standard auto gearbox and a standard shifter, and do no mods other than fit a "ratchet" shifter ,this with not change the way the gearbox operates, it just gives you a rachet shifter to select gears with (takes some human error out of racing)
Now your Gearbox Herne is obviously NOT standard and has been modified, and not suggesting it does not do what you are saying, but what i would like to know is, what has been done to make your gearbox change gears as you describe, if you don't think you have a manual valve body fitted ?
We need to take the "shifter" out of the picture, and look at what the gearbox does when left to change gears automatically, but not just left in Drive.
If you are happy to, next time you drive your car ,pull the shifter back manually into "Second" gear at the lights, then cruise off as normal , if the car takes off in first and you feel it change into second by itself without touching the shifter then you have a normal auto, if it feels like its very sluggish as you leave the line (less than a car lenth), pull it back to first and see if it picks up, (changes down a gear) if it does this you have the same situation as a manual valve bodied auto would react.
At the end of the day Herne, if you are happy with what you box does thats ALL that matters, ive just never heard of what you describe and would like to learn a bit more.
MT
#22
_Phantom10_
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Posted 14 June 2009 - 02:39 PM
I think you will find the same problem with that. Being a young hoon, I've been in loads of my mate's cars with 'Stage II' Shift Kits, and I reckon they are a kinda pointless mod, at 1/6th throttle from 1st to 2nd gear, it's ridiculous. But autos do get sloppy over the years. The vehicles I've been in that apparantly have 'Stage I' Shift Kits seem to be a bit more on the money. If I wanted a proper auto I would fully manualise it, otherwise I would just have it rebuilt.
But with the amount of power than you have, don't even bother with autos; chuck a manual in there and call it a day.
Yeah that was the plan Heath, lol, but found a cheap Aussie 4sp yesterday so will just Manual her
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