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motor wont turn off???

Started by _TORANGA_ , Jun 18 2009 08:59 PM

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43 replies to this topic

#26 REDA9X

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 09:32 PM

Problem Solved dodgey wiring to the relay. just cant understand the guy i bought it off spent lots of time and money but to cut corners on something small is just silly to me.

Pretty typical mate. i know plenty of guys who spend heaps on making a car look pretty and then think it's great becasue the hid the wiring, but when you look at it, it's usually a twisted mess.
A mate of mine is an auto electrician, he is currently rewiring a couple of hatches. I went and had a look the other day, he's had to redo the lot from scratch, and one of these was a very well known show car a while ago, now it just looks like a dejected piece of garbage.
At the same workshop a guy came in with a hevaily modified four banger he thought was the best thing on the road. I lifted the bonnet to find the radiator held in only by the hoses and the thermo fans held on with zip ties and fencing wire and run of a set of speaker wires simply just sitting on the top of a acid stained battery. But hey, it had a cool imported motor (barely sitting in place with butchered CV joints) and a thumping stero and 20" wheels that were cracked and hit everything in the wheel arch.
Another car was having troubles changing the battery. Everything was working ok but someone had done a brillient soldering job leaving a piece of solder larger than a golf ball on the main harness. There are some champion mechanics out there......

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#27 _Darylle_

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:50 PM

Someone will know the answer to the noise in the stereo.... I have heard to answer to that before... but can't remember what they say it is...

Success!! I removed the relay and connected the E/I wire to an ignition wire and all good including only slight radio noise at low idle. Can anyone confirm any downside to this new wiring configuration? I mean surely the mechanic who fitted the E/I system (with the relay) and an "old school" auto electrn. may have had issues with the relay install. I can recall that not long after the original E/I install, the dizzy failed and was returned to the supplier who confirmed a low voltage related issue, but given my dealings with this particular supplier I would doubt any info they provided. It looks like GMH torana forum certainly came through with the goods here! Thanks MRLXSS

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#28 TerrA LX

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:28 PM

What voltage do you have there now?

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#29 _Darylle_

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 09:29 PM

What voltage do you have there now?

Once the voltage reg. was replaced (a couple of weeks ago) it was back to 12 - 13 volts and I'm convinced thats all fine now. But I can't believe the difference with the new wiring job and maybe its just me but I reckon it's idling better as well and imediate stop on shut down! I haven't been for a good run yet but definately tomorrow. Do the factory E/I motors use a relay? I'm thinking not.

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#30 TerrA LX

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 11:41 PM

What's a E/I ???

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#31 rodomo

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 11:55 PM

What's a E/I ???

E/I = HEI? :dontknow:

Smash the dissy with a hammer....................
That'll stop it. :blink2:

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#32 _torbirdie_

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 01:21 AM

What voltage do you have there now?

Once the voltage reg. was replaced (a couple of weeks ago) it was back to 12 - 13 volts and I'm convinced thats all fine now. But I can't believe the difference with the new wiring job and maybe its just me but I reckon it's idling better as well and imediate stop on shut down! I haven't been for a good run yet but definately tomorrow. Do the factory E/I motors use a relay? I'm thinking not.

Assume by E/I you are referring to an electronic distributor that runs a 12V coil? The "factory" setup of these(vh commodore etc) didnt run a relay.
Your auto elec decided to put one in to your torrie so you actually get 12V(or 14V when the engine is running), if you just use the original yellow ignition wire then it will overload that wire and it wont get over 10V at the coil. The wire direct from the ignition side of the fuse terminal will work ok provided you also connect the original yellow ignition wire(required for full voltage when starting).

Is the radio interference a whine from the alternator or spark noise? If its spark noise, you could spend days with more earths better connections etc, only to find that you'll hit most of it on the head if you fit resistor spark plugs, I dont think newer cars use anything else.

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#33 TerrA LX

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 01:43 AM

I think the relay is also fitted to take the load off the ignition switch.

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#34 _Darylle_

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:18 AM

I think the relay is also fitted to take the load off the ignition switch.

O.K just what I thought the relay is fitted to take the load off the ign. switch. So is the non relay set up O.K to use without further drama? Thats why I asked the question of the VC onwards E/I (ELECTRONIC IGNITION!!!) did they have a relay factory fitted. I did read in another forum that the relay was a No No but they didn't elaborate why not.
Thanks for the info.

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#35 WhaleOilBeefHooked

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 12:24 PM

50 Magnum --- The Most Powerful Handgun in The World will blow a 20 cent sized hole right throught Thu Engine Block.. That'll stop it, Dunno bout restarting though... Posted Image

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#36 _torbirdie_

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 01:31 PM

I think the relay is also fitted to take the load off the ignition switch.

O.K just what I thought the relay is fitted to take the load off the ign. switch. So is the non relay set up O.K to use without further drama? Thats why I asked the question of the VC onwards E/I (ELECTRONIC IGNITION!!!) did they have a relay factory fitted. I did read in another forum that the relay was a No No but they didn't elaborate why not.
Thanks for the info.

Im not sure about the relay being a no,no but there is no real advantage using it with the standard bosch hei system. It will draw an average 5A over the standard points systems 3A, if your switch is ok for everything else, an additional 2A isnt a consideration. Some more performance based systems perhaps draw more than this and worth keeping that in mind.

Im guessing that they werent factory fitted in the vh,k series because of expense and adding another potential source of failure for no real gain to the ignition circuit. Relays arent forever and there are 6 additional points of connection to corrode etc over a non relayed circuit.

Im also guessing that most auto elecs would do the relay conversion as its a no brainer in terms of knowing which wires to connect and means not having to put their head under the dash and solder on a proper connection to the correct wire on the back of the fuse panel, or perhaps they are future proofing the conversion in case the owner fits a high performance ignition.

Edited by torbirdie, 18 July 2010 - 01:45 PM.

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#37 TerrA LX

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 08:01 PM

I think the relay is also fitted to take the load off the ignition switch.

O.K just what I thought the relay is fitted to take the load off the ign. switch. So is the non relay set up O.K to use without further drama?

So long as you have between 11V ~ 16V you will be fine.

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#38 _Darylle_

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:47 PM

I think the relay is also fitted to take the load off the ignition switch.

O.K just what I thought the relay is fitted to take the load off the ign. switch. So is the non relay set up O.K to use without further drama?

So long as you have between 11V ~ 16V you will be fine.

I'm curious under what conditions would the ign. circuit receive under voltage? I do have twin thermos and I'm aware they draw a bit, but I thought the Bosch alt. would be up to the task. The ign. system is the MSD street fire (ready to run) kit. Also I have upgraded to an AGM (sealed) battery as my experience with storage and starting batteries in boats confirms they have a little extra "juice" and recover to full charge faster.

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#39 TerrA LX

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:52 PM

Upto and including some 1980 holdens had an inline resistor, reducing ignition coil voltage to 7~9V whilst running.

Also weak battery or failing alt bushes will reduce overall voltage, I've seen cars still running with 11V but not much under this.

Edited by TerrA LX, 18 July 2010 - 09:53 PM.

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#40 rodomo

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:49 PM

With an alternator not charging and a volt meter attached to the battery, about 9V is about where they stop from experiance.

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#41 TerrA LX

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 10:58 PM

Your probably right Rob, I know cars with ECU don't function too well under 11V.

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#42 rodomo

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:19 PM

Some cars with a good alternator will run with the battery disconnected, others wont.
ECU cars wont roll start if the dash lights dont illuminate when you turn the key, voltage too low to boot the puter I guess? :dontknow:

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#43 _Brad1979UC_

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:19 AM

I've seen cars still running with 11V but not much under this.

I had an ammeter installed in mine for a short time, it failed internally and wasn't charging, I didn't know what it was till i got home and had a look but i limped home at night, when I got home I checked the battery voltage, 9.3V

...HEI fitted w/out relay. Had no instrument lights, no indicators, ran like crap, and barely headlights LOL

On another note that noise issue, check the suppressor cap on your alternator, if that's gone that could be the cause of some of the hum, i think theres one usually on the coil too

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#44 _stretchlc_

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 01:29 PM

I think that the thing that prevents static noise in our stereos is called a "supressor" from memory(kinda like a distributors condensor)mounted to the back of the alternator.Replacement should be pretty easy and most auto elec. shops will carry this item......mind you....WHO NEEDS A STEREO ANYWAY?.......turbo'd 186 at 6,500 rpms is all the music I need Posted Image