I want to use my car for the odd hill climb and club event next year. It currently is running a standard red 253. My first thought is to fit a 4 barrel carbi and a decent set of extractors plus maybe electronic ignition to get a little more power before i compete. After that i am guessing performance heads and cam. Just would like anyones thoughts on getting 160 to 180 kw out of a 253 with a standard looking motor. Plus best combination of carbi, cam, heads etc Cost effective options preferred :-) Oh and i want a motor that is tractable for driving around town.
More power from a 253
Started by
_maelgwn41160_
, Aug 05 2009 10:17 PM
24 replies to this topic
#2
Neils LX
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Posted 06 August 2009 - 07:49 AM
Hi
Before spending money on the 253 if its legal id just put a 308 in it and theres a cheap hp upgrade.
Chears Neil
Before spending money on the 253 if its legal id just put a 308 in it and theres a cheap hp upgrade.
Chears Neil
#3
mr5000
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Posted 06 August 2009 - 08:22 AM
mrlxss put out i think 150kw or there abouts thats a 290 stroker
heads cam ignition and carbie are good starts but if you can do somethign with the bottom end up the compression it should go pretty bloody good
might aswell re ring and do the bearing swhile ya at it
heads cam ignition and carbie are good starts but if you can do somethign with the bottom end up the compression it should go pretty bloody good
might aswell re ring and do the bearing swhile ya at it
#4
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Posted 06 August 2009 - 10:07 AM
You could try an engine similar to the Commodore Cup Spec's .............They are still basely a Std. engine , but do put out more HP and a bit of added reliability.
I've only managed to find some of that info:
Commodore Cup - Induction spec
6.6 The camshaft shall be the "Commodore Racing" camshaft (profile number: 1326), as supplied by Crow Cams. Camshaft installation in relation to TDC is free.
7. INDUCTIONSYSTEM
7.1 Carburettor must be a Holley four-barrel downdraught carburettor � 465 cfm. Model number: 1848 or model number 81570.
7.2 The prescribed carburettor must not be modified save for the following components:
(a) Primary feed holes located beneath the seat of the power valve may be enlarged. These holes must remain circular and centred around the same axis as the original hole.
(
In the model number 1848 carburettor, the The seat of the secondary diaphragm check ball may be modified by removal of metal from the seat to provide an air bleed below the ball.
© Any Holley secondary diaphragm spring may be used.
(d) Enlargement of the fuel metering holes in the secondary metering plate is permitted.
(e) It is permitted to replace the secondary metering plate with a secondary metering block kit (Holley part number: HLY-34-6).
(f) The primary jets are free only as to size, provided that they are of Holley pattern and dimension.
(g) The power valve may be replaced but shall remain of original Holley design.
(h) The choke butterfly and associated linkages may be removed. It is compulsory to plug any vacuum holes left open by the removal of the choke butterfly.
Each damper (insert or shock absorber) must carry an individual serial number stamped into it by the supplier. A shock dyno sheet for each damper unit, bearing the serial number of the unit, must be supplied to the Technical Commissioner.
(i) It is permitted to replace both carburettor bowls and floats with the controlled centre-pivot bowl and float kit as supplied by the Commodore Racing Association. Holley part numbers are: primary bowl 34-25, secondary bowl 34-27 and floats RR 116-3.
7.4 The inlet manifold shall be Edelbrock �Performer� model number 2194. The inlet manifold may be machined only on the machined surfaces, which are in contact with the cylinder head or cylinder block. Such machining shall be limited to the minimum amount to effect proper fitment. The thickness of gaskets and any spacers between the inlet manifold and the carburettor shall not exceed 3mm in total. These gaskets and spacers shall not protrude more than 20mm laterally in any direction beyond a square drawn through the centre of the four bolts, which mount the carburettor to the inlet manifold.
I've only managed to find some of that info:
Commodore Cup - Induction spec
6.6 The camshaft shall be the "Commodore Racing" camshaft (profile number: 1326), as supplied by Crow Cams. Camshaft installation in relation to TDC is free.
7. INDUCTIONSYSTEM
7.1 Carburettor must be a Holley four-barrel downdraught carburettor � 465 cfm. Model number: 1848 or model number 81570.
7.2 The prescribed carburettor must not be modified save for the following components:
(a) Primary feed holes located beneath the seat of the power valve may be enlarged. These holes must remain circular and centred around the same axis as the original hole.
(
In the model number 1848 carburettor, the The seat of the secondary diaphragm check ball may be modified by removal of metal from the seat to provide an air bleed below the ball.© Any Holley secondary diaphragm spring may be used.
(d) Enlargement of the fuel metering holes in the secondary metering plate is permitted.
(e) It is permitted to replace the secondary metering plate with a secondary metering block kit (Holley part number: HLY-34-6).
(f) The primary jets are free only as to size, provided that they are of Holley pattern and dimension.
(g) The power valve may be replaced but shall remain of original Holley design.
(h) The choke butterfly and associated linkages may be removed. It is compulsory to plug any vacuum holes left open by the removal of the choke butterfly.
Each damper (insert or shock absorber) must carry an individual serial number stamped into it by the supplier. A shock dyno sheet for each damper unit, bearing the serial number of the unit, must be supplied to the Technical Commissioner.
(i) It is permitted to replace both carburettor bowls and floats with the controlled centre-pivot bowl and float kit as supplied by the Commodore Racing Association. Holley part numbers are: primary bowl 34-25, secondary bowl 34-27 and floats RR 116-3.
7.4 The inlet manifold shall be Edelbrock �Performer� model number 2194. The inlet manifold may be machined only on the machined surfaces, which are in contact with the cylinder head or cylinder block. Such machining shall be limited to the minimum amount to effect proper fitment. The thickness of gaskets and any spacers between the inlet manifold and the carburettor shall not exceed 3mm in total. These gaskets and spacers shall not protrude more than 20mm laterally in any direction beyond a square drawn through the centre of the four bolts, which mount the carburettor to the inlet manifold.
#5
TerrA LX
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Posted 06 August 2009 - 03:26 PM
Try the sticky.
#6
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Posted 06 August 2009 - 09:07 PM
Mate theres a good article in the wiki under engine for a 253,
might not be what your looking at put worth a read before spending
any time and money.
regards brock blake
might not be what your looking at put worth a read before spending
any time and money.
regards brock blake
#7
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:34 AM
Hi
Before spending money on the 253 if its legal id just put a 308 in it and theres a cheap hp upgrade.
Chears Neil
My car is an original factory 4 speed with a 253 i would like to keep the 253 for originality and for something a little different. If i was looking for big the 308 is the way to go.
#8
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:36 AM
mrlxss put out i think 150kw or there abouts thats a 290 stroker
heads cam ignition and carbie are good starts but if you can do somethign with the bottom end up the compression it should go pretty bloody good
might aswell re ring and do the bearing swhile ya at it
Thanks how high could go with the compression and still be streetable on pump fuel?
#9
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:37 AM
You could try an engine similar to the Commodore Cup Spec's .............They are still basely a Std. engine , but do put out more HP and a bit of added reliability.
I've only managed to find some of that info:
Commodore Cup - Induction spec
6.6 The camshaft shall be the "Commodore Racing" camshaft (profile number: 1326), as supplied by Crow Cams. Camshaft installation in relation to TDC is free.
7. INDUCTIONSYSTEM
7.1 Carburettor must be a Holley four-barrel downdraught carburettor � 465 cfm. Model number: 1848 or model number 81570.
7.2 The prescribed carburettor must not be modified save for the following components:
(a) Primary feed holes located beneath the seat of the power valve may be enlarged. These holes must remain circular and centred around the same axis as the original hole.
(
� Any Holley secondary diaphragm spring may be used.
(d) Enlargement of the fuel metering holes in the secondary metering plate is permitted.
(e) It is permitted to replace the secondary metering plate with a secondary metering block kit (Holley part number: HLY-34-6).
(f) The primary jets are free only as to size, provided that they are of Holley pattern and dimension.
(g) The power valve may be replaced but shall remain of original Holley design.
(h) The choke butterfly and associated linkages may be removed. It is compulsory to plug any vacuum holes left open by the removal of the choke butterfly.
Each damper (insert or shock absorber) must carry an individual serial number stamped into it by the supplier. A shock dyno sheet for each damper unit, bearing the serial number of the unit, must be supplied to the Technical Commissioner.
(i) It is permitted to replace both carburettor bowls and floats with the controlled centre-pivot bowl and float kit as supplied by the Commodore Racing Association. Holley part numbers are: primary bowl 34-25, secondary bowl 34-27 and floats RR 116-3.
7.4 The inlet manifold shall be Edelbrock 'Performer' model number 2194. The inlet manifold may be machined only on the machined surfaces, which are in contact with the cylinder head or cylinder block. Such machining shall be limited to the minimum amount to effect proper fitment. The thickness of gaskets and any spacers between the inlet manifold and the carburettor shall not exceed 3mm in total. These gaskets and spacers shall not protrude more than 20mm laterally in any direction beyond a square drawn through the centre of the four bolts, which mount the carburettor to the inlet manifold.
#10
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:38 AM
You could try an engine similar to the Commodore Cup Spec's .............They are still basely a Std. engine , but do put out more HP and a bit of added reliability.
I've only managed to find some of that info:
Commodore Cup - Induction spec
6.6 The camshaft shall be the "Commodore Racing" camshaft (profile number: 1326), as supplied by Crow Cams. Camshaft installation in relation to TDC is free.
7. INDUCTIONSYSTEM
7.1 Carburettor must be a Holley four-barrel downdraught carburettor � 465 cfm. Model number: 1848 or model number 81570.
7.2 The prescribed carburettor must not be modified save for the following components:
(a) Primary feed holes located beneath the seat of the power valve may be enlarged. These holes must remain circular and centred around the same axis as the original hole.
(
� Any Holley secondary diaphragm spring may be used.
(d) Enlargement of the fuel metering holes in the secondary metering plate is permitted.
(e) It is permitted to replace the secondary metering plate with a secondary metering block kit (Holley part number: HLY-34-6).
(f) The primary jets are free only as to size, provided that they are of Holley pattern and dimension.
(g) The power valve may be replaced but shall remain of original Holley design.
(h) The choke butterfly and associated linkages may be removed. It is compulsory to plug any vacuum holes left open by the removal of the choke butterfly.
Each damper (insert or shock absorber) must carry an individual serial number stamped into it by the supplier. A shock dyno sheet for each damper unit, bearing the serial number of the unit, must be supplied to the Technical Commissioner.
(i) It is permitted to replace both carburettor bowls and floats with the controlled centre-pivot bowl and float kit as supplied by the Commodore Racing Association. Holley part numbers are: primary bowl 34-25, secondary bowl 34-27 and floats RR 116-3.
7.4 The inlet manifold shall be Edelbrock 'Performer' model number 2194. The inlet manifold may be machined only on the machined surfaces, which are in contact with the cylinder head or cylinder block. Such machining shall be limited to the minimum amount to effect proper fitment. The thickness of gaskets and any spacers between the inlet manifold and the carburettor shall not exceed 3mm in total. These gaskets and spacers shall not protrude more than 20mm laterally in any direction beyond a square drawn through the centre of the four bolts, which mount the carburettor to the inlet manifold.
Thanks thats interesting did they run a 253 or 308 in the commodore cup?
#11
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:41 AM
Mate theres a good article in the wiki under engine for a 253,
might not be what your looking at put worth a read before spending
any time and money.
regards brock blake
Thanks i have read that article before they spent a lot of money on that motor and produced more power than i need. Though i guess some parts of the build would be useful
#12
_sbc57lx_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:24 PM
here's a little more ......( I use to find all the SPEC's on CAMS web site, can't seem to find that stuff now )
Engine - These cars run a 4.2L Holden V8 (253) making ~340Hp at the flywheel. A standard cylinder block, crank and rod form the basis of the engine. Yella Terra supply either steel or aluminium cylinder heads and roller rockers. Other components include a controlled Crow cam, ACL pistons, Edelbrock intake mainfold, and a 465 Holley carb. Sump and Exhaust are free.
Hmmmmmm 340Hp, not bad for a 253
Engine - These cars run a 4.2L Holden V8 (253) making ~340Hp at the flywheel. A standard cylinder block, crank and rod form the basis of the engine. Yella Terra supply either steel or aluminium cylinder heads and roller rockers. Other components include a controlled Crow cam, ACL pistons, Edelbrock intake mainfold, and a 465 Holley carb. Sump and Exhaust are free.
Hmmmmmm 340Hp, not bad for a 253
#13
MRLXSS
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 01:35 PM
Thanks i have read that article before they spent a lot of money on that motor and produced more power than i need. Though i guess some parts of the build would be useful
Hey mate, Are you looking for 160-180rwkw or flywheel kw?
340hp at the fly wheel, is about 254 kW at the fly....
Using the rough estimate of about 30% driveline loss, your looking at about 175rwkw.
My motor has 143rwkw, which is about 185kw at the flywheel or about 250hp.
For specs on my motor, check out the garage section. My motor is over 10 years old now as well. I'm sure with a freshen up, and have it built to suit petrol, and not gas. I'd be over 150rwkw easy.
#14
_LX Torana Kid_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:00 PM
here's a little more ......( I use to find all the SPEC's on CAMS web site, can't seem to find that stuff now )
Engine - These cars run a 4.2L Holden V8 (253) making ~340Hp at the flywheel. A standard cylinder block, crank and rod form the basis of the engine. Yella Terra supply either steel or aluminium cylinder heads and roller rockers. Other components include a controlled Crow cam, ACL pistons, Edelbrock intake mainfold, and a 465 Holley carb. Sump and Exhaust are free.
Hmmmmmm 340Hp, not bad for a 253
Is that what you get if you put those mods in is it?????
#15
MRLXSS
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:11 PM
^^ Not quite, there is a lot of precision machining ($$) that goes into this motors with "simple mods" that make them go so great. ^^
IMHO
A strong Cam, a well built bottom end, good manifold, carby, exhaust, dizzy in a 253, can push out 140-150rwkw if built very well... Most will be lucky to be around the 100-120rwkw mark.
If you put more cubes into it (like a stroker crank or whatever, like my motor). Then you can probably squeeze another 20rwkw into them, if they are built well.
Sure, if you spend mega bucks, anything is possible. People claim to "used to have" a 253 with 400hp and stuff like that. But until a see a car/dyno slip/spec sheet and time sheet or similar. I will not believe it.
IMHO
A strong Cam, a well built bottom end, good manifold, carby, exhaust, dizzy in a 253, can push out 140-150rwkw if built very well... Most will be lucky to be around the 100-120rwkw mark.
If you put more cubes into it (like a stroker crank or whatever, like my motor). Then you can probably squeeze another 20rwkw into them, if they are built well.
Sure, if you spend mega bucks, anything is possible. People claim to "used to have" a 253 with 400hp and stuff like that. But until a see a car/dyno slip/spec sheet and time sheet or similar. I will not believe it.
#16
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 02:14 PM
^^ But in saying the above... Its MUCH EASIER to just build a decent 308. Its cheaper, easier power! So unless you have to have a 253 (Rules or something) then i wouldnt bother wasting the money in it! When the 308 is already bigger and better!
I had my 253, because it was legal for me to drive on my P plates, the rules have changed now... So i don't really see the big appeal for the 253 (except for the fact you can still get them engineered in lc/lj's etc?)
I had my 253, because it was legal for me to drive on my P plates, the rules have changed now... So i don't really see the big appeal for the 253 (except for the fact you can still get them engineered in lc/lj's etc?)
#17
_LX Torana Kid_
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Posted 07 August 2009 - 03:01 PM
^^ But in saying the above... Its MUCH EASIER to just build a decent 308. Its cheaper, easier power! So unless you have to have a 253 (Rules or something) then i wouldnt bother wasting the money in it! When the 308 is already bigger and better!
I had my 253, because it was legal for me to drive on my P plates, the rules have changed now... So i don't really see the big appeal for the 253 (except for the fact you can still get them engineered in lc/lj's etc?)
Yeah but i dont have a 308 so i need one lol bahaha. So if u know anyone with a 308 get them to email me. Im in townsville. Yeah but i want the 253 to have at least power if i wanna change engines over if sumthing happens to the other one lol
#18
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:39 AM
here's a little more ......( I use to find all the SPEC's on CAMS web site, can't seem to find that stuff now )
Engine - These cars run a 4.2L Holden V8 (253) making ~340Hp at the flywheel. A standard cylinder block, crank and rod form the basis of the engine. Yella Terra supply either steel or aluminium cylinder heads and roller rockers. Other components include a controlled Crow cam, ACL pistons, Edelbrock intake mainfold, and a 465 Holley carb. Sump and Exhaust are free.
Hmmmmmm 340Hp, not bad for a 253
Hey thanks for this these coomodore cup engines sound interesting and i assume well sorted ~340hp is impressive and while i am unlikely to get that sort of power without spending a lot of money on a build there have got to be some pretty useful stuff in the spec's
Regards
Paul
#19
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:44 AM
Hey mate, Are you looking for 160-180rwkw or flywheel kw?
340hp at the fly wheel, is about 254 kW at the fly....
Using the rough estimate of about 30% driveline loss, your looking at about 175rwkw.
My motor has 143rwkw, which is about 185kw at the flywheel or about 250hp.
For specs on my motor, check out the garage section. My motor is over 10 years old now as well. I'm sure with a freshen up, and have it built to suit petrol, and not gas. I'd be over 150rwkw easy.
My goal was the sort of power you get from an injected 308 in a VN so i guess thats 160 to 180kw at the flywheel i will check out the your spec in the garage.
Have you run your down the strip just interested in what sort of times you would get?
Regards
Paul
#20
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:54 AM
^^ But in saying the above... Its MUCH EASIER to just build a decent 308. Its cheaper, easier power! So unless you have to have a 253 (Rules or something) then i wouldnt bother wasting the money in it! When the 308 is already bigger and better!
I have a 253 and am interested in getting some better performance from it...Its been in the family for 32 years and there is no way Im changing it.(sentimental value)..it is what is is...If I wanted a 308 I would go out and buy a 308...Money is not an issue....This thread is interesting and Im keen to find out how to get some more grunt.....
#21
_maelgwn41160_
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 12:57 AM
here's a little more ......( I use to find all the SPEC's on CAMS web site, can't seem to find that stuff now )
Engine - These cars run a 4.2L Holden V8 (253) making ~340Hp at the flywheel. A standard cylinder block, crank and rod form the basis of the engine. Yella Terra supply either steel or aluminium cylinder heads and roller rockers. Other components include a controlled Crow cam, ACL pistons, Edelbrock intake mainfold, and a 465 Holley carb. Sump and Exhaust are free.
Hmmmmmm 340Hp, not bad for a 253
Found the specs on the cams website http://www.camsmanua...02_race.asp#3rd
#22
MRLXSS
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 09:19 AM
If money is no problem... Check these out
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=43
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=45
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=43
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=45
#23
_mello92_
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 11:13 AM
Sheesh! That 310ci stroker kit would make the old 253 go! Cant imagine it'll want to rev much but.
#24
_pantah_
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Posted 08 August 2009 - 11:52 AM
If money is no problem... Check these out
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=43
http://pro-stroke.co...;products_id=45
Cool....thanks dude.Those kits look the Business
#25
_Sable GTR_
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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:02 PM
Back in the mid to late 80s my old man built up a 253 for my HZ wagon.
It was decked, tunnel bored etc. Used flat top pistons, stage 3 yella terra heads, 29/69 heatseeker cam.
Standard dizzy with Bosch electronic conversion. 350 holley that I had re-jetted and changed powervalve. (dont ask what to, too long ago)
Was running M20 with a 2.78 10 bolt salisbury. Used to spin wheels at will. But required clutch to be slipped when towing and starting on hills.
I later transplanted same motor into LX hatch with genie extractors and brock style single exhaust. It absolutly honked. (term used by us older people)
Had 3.55 diff and 14 inch 265x50s on the back. Later put in 3.08 ratio and was better to drive.
Car was driven almost every day, never broke down, good on petrol, had plenty of go. Had slight roll in idle, and didn't cost the earth.
Robbo.
PS, I last saw the hatch at toranafest in early / mid 90s, it was marinello red with black bonnet, motor was painted black and had hydraulic clutch.
I gave the then owner the engine reciepts and a chrome strip for the side window. If this was you, where is my car now.
It would be interesting to see it again.
It was decked, tunnel bored etc. Used flat top pistons, stage 3 yella terra heads, 29/69 heatseeker cam.
Standard dizzy with Bosch electronic conversion. 350 holley that I had re-jetted and changed powervalve. (dont ask what to, too long ago)
Was running M20 with a 2.78 10 bolt salisbury. Used to spin wheels at will. But required clutch to be slipped when towing and starting on hills.
I later transplanted same motor into LX hatch with genie extractors and brock style single exhaust. It absolutly honked. (term used by us older people)
Had 3.55 diff and 14 inch 265x50s on the back. Later put in 3.08 ratio and was better to drive.
Car was driven almost every day, never broke down, good on petrol, had plenty of go. Had slight roll in idle, and didn't cost the earth.
Robbo.
PS, I last saw the hatch at toranafest in early / mid 90s, it was marinello red with black bonnet, motor was painted black and had hydraulic clutch.
I gave the then owner the engine reciepts and a chrome strip for the side window. If this was you, where is my car now.
It would be interesting to see it again.
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