hi guys, i'm just trying to get some heads up, i want to put a 400 chev into either a LJ or similar or an LX-LH or similar, i know there is mods to be made like cutting, moving and welding, stering moved, new mounts etc, can anyone point me into the right direction in finding out all the mods that has to be done, and it has to be all legal as i will be engineered and rego'd so it can be driven on the street, any help is greatful. cheers guys.
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(ps. anyone in syds know of any good engineers in sydney that has dealt with torrie's?)
400 chev into torana ?
Started by
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, Apr 15 2010 04:06 PM
25 replies to this topic
#2
_LXATIV_
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 04:57 PM
400 chev is to big. 350 is bout the max for lh-lx. lc - lj is even smaller
Edited by LXATIV, 15 April 2010 - 04:57 PM.
#3
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:13 PM
400 chev is to big. 350 is bout the max for lh-lx. lc - lj is even smaller
but i've seen them on the road, engineeered and registered with 400 small block chev's, they aren't that common but they are still out there.
does anyone out there know the chassis limits for cubic inches ratio???
#4
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:41 PM
Most guys dont know how to tell the difference, just tell them its a 350 chev.
Thats what i plan to do when i put the 400 into my LH.
Dont bother trying to do it in a LC/LJ though.
Cheers.
Thats what i plan to do when i put the 400 into my LH.
Dont bother trying to do it in a LC/LJ though.
Cheers.
#5
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:55 PM
Most guys dont know how to tell the difference, just tell them its a 350 chev.
Thats what i plan to do when i put the 400 into my LH.
Dont bother trying to do it in a LC/LJ though.
Cheers.
thanks for that bomber, i know the 350 and 400 blocks are pretty much the same, are there any differences? e.g bore etc or can you do the same with a 350 as with a 400 block? as i want to bump up the cubes.
so a fair question would be, what is the max you can stroke a 350 compared to a 400 block?
even if i have to i'll buy a shitty 350 and stamp the numbers onto the 400.
also is there a lot more work doing the conversion to an LC/LJ compared to an LX/LH?
as you can probably tell all i'm pretty much building a power to weight sleeper, gunna look a stock peice of piss and quiet as can possibly be
#6
yel327
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 05:57 PM
Main difference between 350 and 400 is the bore size, and the main bearing journal size.
You can stroke a 350 to 377 cubes and then add +0.060" oversise pistons to 399ci. These are often called 383ci engines. It's basically a 400 crank with the mains ground down, in a large journal 302/327/350 block.
The 400 SBC also has siamesed sleeves with steam holes between. 350 and 400 heads are basically the same but the heads have to have holes drilled in them to align with the steam holes.
You can stroke a 350 to 377 cubes and then add +0.060" oversise pistons to 399ci. These are often called 383ci engines. It's basically a 400 crank with the mains ground down, in a large journal 302/327/350 block.
The 400 SBC also has siamesed sleeves with steam holes between. 350 and 400 heads are basically the same but the heads have to have holes drilled in them to align with the steam holes.
Edited by yel327, 15 April 2010 - 06:07 PM.
#7
_Bomber Watson_
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 06:35 PM
And the 400 has an extra welsh plug, and are externally balanced, which are basically the only external differences...
Hard to spot specially if ya dont know.
Cheers.
Hard to spot specially if ya dont know.
Cheers.
Edited by Bomber Watson, 15 April 2010 - 06:35 PM.
#8
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 07:54 PM
One look at the casting number (which is easily visible) will give it away as a 400 to any rego inspector or engineer with half a clue.
An 060 over 383 is a 388 and not all 400's have 3 welch plugs.
An 060 over 383 is a 388 and not all 400's have 3 welch plugs.
#9
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:25 PM
as you can probably tell all i'm pretty much building a power to weight sleeper, gunna look a stock peice of piss and quiet as can possibly be
Just a thought but what about an LS1/LS2? It'd be much lighter and make good power with very little modification. Not that expensive anymore either..
#10
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:50 PM
just an off topic type q but would a 350 be able to hidden as a 305 or 307?
might just squeeze under the rule limit on lj's then
might just squeeze under the rule limit on lj's then
#11
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:53 PM
An 060 over 383 is a 388 and not all 400's have 3 welch plugs.
True. 388.4ci to be exact! Although (tongue in cheek) allowing for piston clearance you'll get 389 or 390ci!
just an off topic type q but would a 350 be able to hidden as a 305 or 307?
might just squeeze under the rule limit on lj's then
You won't hide a 350 as a 305 or 307, but you could hide it as a 302 as large journal 302 and 327 share the same blocks as a 350.
That or bore an aussie fitted 307 to 4" and stick a 350 crank in it.
#12
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:58 PM
Last time at my torrie rego there was a 454 lx all engineered.
nsw plates all good, great looking car AND SOUNDED ,.....,,...%$%^AWESOME
Muz
nsw plates all good, great looking car AND SOUNDED ,.....,,...%$%^AWESOME
Muz
Edited by muzzta, 15 April 2010 - 10:00 PM.
#13
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:12 PM
An 060 over 383 is a 388 and not all 400's have 3 welch plugs.
True. 388.4ci to be exact! Although (tongue in cheek) allowing for piston clearance you'll get 389 or 390ci!just an off topic type q but would a 350 be able to hidden as a 305 or 307?
might just squeeze under the rule limit on lj's then
You won't hide a 350 as a 305 or 307, but you could hide it as a 302 as large journal 302 and 327 share the same blocks as a 350.
That or bore an aussie fitted 307 to 4" and stick a 350 crank in it.
lol forgot about the 302 but might be hard to find a "stuffed" block for the numbers
a 283 might be easier but do they "look" the same?
#14
yel327
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:18 PM
Why do you need a stuffed block? Just use any 010 block.
#15
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 11:40 PM
Last time at my torrie rego there was a 454 lx all engineered.
nsw plates all good, great looking car AND SOUNDED ,.....,,...%$%^AWESOME
Muz
a big block into an LX?
i'm very interested in that setup, i know there would be a fair bit of work involved, but is that setup still legal? even though its been engineered, does it throw the cube to chassis ratio out the window? i think it might be hard to find an engineer these days who would pass such a project?
any more info guys and thoughts on the big block application? as i am looking for cubes here
#16
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 12:07 AM
as you can probably tell all i'm pretty much building a power to weight sleeper, gunna look a stock peice of piss and quiet as can possibly be
Just a thought but what about an LS1/LS2? It'd be much lighter and make good power with very little modification. Not that expensive anymore either..
ok ok i have a confession to make, i have been a ford man for many many years, but i've previously owned a hj with a mild 350 and all the bits to make it a nice streeter which i had for years taking it to summernats, and was a joy to drive but i've always like the torrie's and im looking for power to weight here, and as for the ford side of lighter vehicles... cortina's are the choice and the capri's are too much $$$$, but stroking a windsor to a 347 before i have to do some major mods to the corty is the reason why i'm taking the torana route, there are a lot more out there with big chev's in them plus you don't have to stuff around with them as much, and a lot more parts and off the shelf items at my disposal.
so in being mainly dealing with fords, i have no idea about the LS1/LS2's, are they chev's or holden donks? they are also injected aren't they? also i want to try to stay away from injection and stay with the carby setup, i just hate stuffing around with computer shit and chips (i wouldnt know where to begin) i'd rather play around with my holley's
i greatly appreciate all the feedback guys, keep it coming, i'm taking everything into consideration, cheers
#17
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:00 AM
See this page for more info, basically the LS series are the GM all aluminium V8 as used in the Corvette and current hi-po Holdens. What makes them so attractive is their unusually high power-to-weight ratio; they are no heavier than a 186 but depending on the version made up to 400hp stock standard. There is a lot of hop-up gear available for them. Yes, you would be stuck with EFI for legal reasons (and I'm a carb man too) but that really wouldn't be a problem; they've already been fitted to many many old style vehicles. They really are a very very nice engine, miles ahead of the old-school SB and BB. I think the main reason so many of us keep using the old V8s is that we've been building them for so long now that we know them inside out and something different like an LS takes us out of our comfort zone..
I'd think twice about the big block; they look and sound impressive but they're very heavy and the sheer bulk of them makes things like fitting headers etc a real pain in the arse. Performance-wise I don't think they are far enough ahead of a small block to make up for their weight and bulk.
I'd think twice about the big block; they look and sound impressive but they're very heavy and the sheer bulk of them makes things like fitting headers etc a real pain in the arse. Performance-wise I don't think they are far enough ahead of a small block to make up for their weight and bulk.
#18
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:33 AM
If you buy a genuine LS series crate engine you can run it with a carb in NSW as far as I know. Would need to be an imported one built for "offroad" use, not for a specific car. This was the answer when I wanted to run a late model BBC in my Overlander. If it was out of a truck or whatever it had to comply with those emisssions, but if it was a crate engine all was sweet.
#19
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:38 AM
I have a big block legally in mine but you can't do it any more in most states, plus if I did it all over again I would go large small block because of all the issues with size and heat. It is just not worth the hassel when now you can get almost 500 cubes out of some small blocks ( Mowtown etc). Plus what about the New World block that's half small block and half LS engine, now there is a new idea.
#20
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:19 AM
My thoughts exactly myss427,
Why go through all the hassle of making a big block fit in to a small engine bay when you can buy a world products motown 454 small block or even a 427 small block,
There was 454 small block in the latest street machine magazine in a street registered LC Torana, very tidy stock looking car still had the coloum shift working
Cheers
Wayne
Why go through all the hassle of making a big block fit in to a small engine bay when you can buy a world products motown 454 small block or even a 427 small block,
There was 454 small block in the latest street machine magazine in a street registered LC Torana, very tidy stock looking car still had the coloum shift working
Cheers
Wayne
#21
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:42 AM
My thoughts exactly myss427,
Why go through all the hassle of making a big block fit in to a small engine bay when you can buy a world products motown 454 small block or even a 427 small block,
There was 454 small block in the latest street machine magazine in a street registered LC Torana, very tidy stock looking car still had the coloum shift working
Cheers
Wayne
well here's news to me, i have to admit, i've been out of the cars game for a couple of years now, been having a break (well losing my licence is somewhat part the reason) but a 454/427 sbc? now this is the news i've been waiting to hear, i'm guessing it would be lighter than the older blocks, but i'm also guessing the price for these would be higher being more new to date? my plan is to build my own engine (carby prefered) and want to sit the block on my stand and get all the components over time and slowly watch it come to life. but i'm deffo out to buy the latest street machine mag to go check it out
#22
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 03:03 PM
Yep as said, it is no longer legal to squeeze a BBC into a torana for road use.
"Build" a 307 or something from a new block, have it certified by an engineer, then if you broke the crank they may inadvertently put a bigger stroke one in and bore it out to fix the bore damage..........
And remember kids, just because it's in SM, has number plates and they say "street driven" doesn't make it legal (or rego'd).......
They had a tower of power on a cover car/falcrumb a couple of issues ago, they said was "street driven"......
Grant..
"Build" a 307 or something from a new block, have it certified by an engineer, then if you broke the crank they may inadvertently put a bigger stroke one in and bore it out to fix the bore damage..........
And remember kids, just because it's in SM, has number plates and they say "street driven" doesn't make it legal (or rego'd).......
They had a tower of power on a cover car/falcrumb a couple of issues ago, they said was "street driven"......
Grant..
#23
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:17 PM
ok, well as all this info keeps coming in, im still unsure of what power plant i'm to be choosing, i still have to find out my max cubes i can legally bump upto, i looked up the motown 427/454 smallblocks and have heard a couple of bad feedbacks about their engine's (but thats also complete crete engine's, so to get a block might still be ok) but thats considering...ARE THEY ROUGHLY THE SAME LOOK AS THE 350/400 SMALL BLOCKS????, if i cant get away with doing this i feel i might be biting off more than i can chew as i don't want to throw in a big block (or 429/454 small block) and find out i can use the damn thing, so i think i might have to try the 400 smallblock route.
ok so now if i do go with the 400 for arguments sake, what do i have to do to a LC/LJ or a LX/LH to get it in there for an engineer to say yep yep yep all safe all good without too much hassle? i want to do this right the first time, so i pretty much want to get the mods now of what to do, i will be auto matically upgrading the brakes suspention and i know i need new mounts etc, i need to know about firewall cutting (if needed) booster and steering changes, crossmember etc, so anyone who knows what their doing in this area please tell me all the in's and outs that you know, or if you can throw me a line of where to find it all out. cheers all
ok so now if i do go with the 400 for arguments sake, what do i have to do to a LC/LJ or a LX/LH to get it in there for an engineer to say yep yep yep all safe all good without too much hassle? i want to do this right the first time, so i pretty much want to get the mods now of what to do, i will be auto matically upgrading the brakes suspention and i know i need new mounts etc, i need to know about firewall cutting (if needed) booster and steering changes, crossmember etc, so anyone who knows what their doing in this area please tell me all the in's and outs that you know, or if you can throw me a line of where to find it all out. cheers all
#24
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 11:45 PM
robbo.........you can put a big block in either an LC/LJ or a LH/LX/UC,it's not that hard im doing another 1 right now (check the build section).........But a BBC wont be legal in a LC/LJ.......It can be legal in a LH/LX........You just have to know the right people........Tell the engineer it is a 396 BBC.........You dont have to modify much to make a BBC fit into a LH/LX....But it all depends on how big the headers are going to be..........You will have to knotch the firewall for the dizzy and remove the lips on the chassis rails.........If you want to know anything else let me know..............Here is a pic of one of my old cars with a 632ci BBC.......
Try this website for engines/gearboxs/parts or anything..........
http://www.racingjunk.com/
This engine bay received a 555ci BBC........
Try this website for engines/gearboxs/parts or anything..........
http://www.racingjunk.com/
This engine bay received a 555ci BBC........
#25
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Posted 17 April 2010 - 08:45 AM
Summers Brothers make a front mount dizzy conversion for a BBC too. I was looking at this for my HK to avoid moving the wiper motor.
http://www.summersbr...utor drives.htm
http://www.summersbr...utor drives.htm
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