Hi,
I'm tossing up what to do with my open BW 78 diff at the moment and will probably be fitting a LOKKA type centre as the car is 95% street driven with the occasional hillclimb and drag day which they are good for.
Does anyone in the Wollongong or southern sydney area have a LOKKA center fitted to their diff. I would like to go for a drive in a car with one fitted before fitting one?
I'm happy to give someone a case of beer etc. for giving me a ride so I can make my mind up.
Ryan
People with LOKKA's
Started by
_youngy_11_
, Oct 18 2010 03:46 PM
11 replies to this topic
#2
_HRV74_
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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:12 PM
Hey Ryan
Are these much the same as a Detroit Trutrac?
Cheers
H
Are these much the same as a Detroit Trutrac?
Cheers
H
#3
_youngy_11_
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Posted 29 October 2010 - 06:36 PM
Hi H
Sorry for the late reply.
No the Trutrac are a better unit which basically do the same thing but have much less backlash when engaging and disengaing.
I can get a trutrac made from Harrop for $1540 which is well out of my price range the 4WD systems LOKKAS are only $500.
I can get a LSD but they are apparently fairly shit (cone type), and im looking at $600 for a tight one.
I have done alot of seaching for a truetrac as Eaton make them and they don't make one for the earlier BW diffs. But they make one for the VT-VZ IRS BW diffs. Which you can get for ~$450 from USA :(.
Ryan
Sorry for the late reply.
No the Trutrac are a better unit which basically do the same thing but have much less backlash when engaging and disengaing.
I can get a trutrac made from Harrop for $1540 which is well out of my price range the 4WD systems LOKKAS are only $500.
I can get a LSD but they are apparently fairly shit (cone type), and im looking at $600 for a tight one.
I have done alot of seaching for a truetrac as Eaton make them and they don't make one for the earlier BW diffs. But they make one for the VT-VZ IRS BW diffs. Which you can get for ~$450 from USA :(.
Ryan
#4
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:41 PM
The Detroit Trutrac is not similar to a Lokka.
The Detroit TruTrac is an LSD which will not provide even torque to both axles in a straight line. The Lokka is a locking differential which will provide even torque to both axles in a straight line.
There are four basic types of differentials.
Spools and CIG Lockers
Axles are permanently locked together which provides equal torque to both axles. During cornering the tyres have to slip.
Locking Differentials
When locked a locking differential will provide equal torque to both axles. During cornering the diff will unlock and only drive the inside wheel.
LSD (Limited Slip Differential)
An LSD does not lock and therefore will not provide equal torque to both axles. The torque difference between the axles is dependant on the design of the LSD. During cornering the diff will slip.
Open
Only one axle at a time is driven. The axle that provides the least resistance will receive the torque.
The KAAZ LSD is arguably a locker as in a straight line the torque is used to increase the clamping pressure on the LSD clutches.
The Detroit TruTrac is an LSD which will not provide even torque to both axles in a straight line. The Lokka is a locking differential which will provide even torque to both axles in a straight line.
There are four basic types of differentials.
Spools and CIG Lockers
Axles are permanently locked together which provides equal torque to both axles. During cornering the tyres have to slip.
Locking Differentials
When locked a locking differential will provide equal torque to both axles. During cornering the diff will unlock and only drive the inside wheel.
LSD (Limited Slip Differential)
An LSD does not lock and therefore will not provide equal torque to both axles. The torque difference between the axles is dependant on the design of the LSD. During cornering the diff will slip.
Open
Only one axle at a time is driven. The axle that provides the least resistance will receive the torque.
The KAAZ LSD is arguably a locker as in a straight line the torque is used to increase the clamping pressure on the LSD clutches.
#5
_youngy_11_
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 07:03 AM
As I said my opinion they are similar("Bascially do they same thing", especially for a street driven application, not rock climber
). Yes the 4WD systems LOKKA will provide 100% torque to both wheels as it fully locks and unlocks. (Engages and disengages) and is why it is still street legal over a spool etc.
The Eaton (Detriot) Trutrac is a helical gear centre(Yes LSD) that works off a multiplication torque factor. This is why if one wheel is off the ground the other wheel we get no drive, if the brake is then applied there will be some torque needed to turn the wheel which is off the ground. The centre will then apply some torque to the wheel on the ground.
From what I have reserched the trutrac are the best for a street driven car, they
*Require no maintenance as compared to LSD and KAAZ LSD.
*Smooth and quite operation.
*Legal
*Quite cheap if you have a 9".
*Will still light up both wheels if you jump on the loud pedal, isn't this right Harv?
Ryan
). Yes the 4WD systems LOKKA will provide 100% torque to both wheels as it fully locks and unlocks. (Engages and disengages) and is why it is still street legal over a spool etc.
The Eaton (Detriot) Trutrac is a helical gear centre(Yes LSD) that works off a multiplication torque factor. This is why if one wheel is off the ground the other wheel we get no drive, if the brake is then applied there will be some torque needed to turn the wheel which is off the ground. The centre will then apply some torque to the wheel on the ground.
From what I have reserched the trutrac are the best for a street driven car, they
*Require no maintenance as compared to LSD and KAAZ LSD.
*Smooth and quite operation.
*Legal
*Quite cheap if you have a 9".
*Will still light up both wheels if you jump on the loud pedal, isn't this right Harv?
Ryan
#6
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 01:14 PM
The Detroit TruTrac more similar to the BW LSD than it is to the Lokka.
If you want traction on the street, strip or rocks then the Detroit TruTrac LSD is not in the same league as a locking diff. The only LSD that is in the same league as a locking diff is the KAAZ.
The Detroit TruTrac is in the same league as the BW LSD and the 9" LSD. The Detroit TruTrac will wear out, just not as quickly as most other LSD's.
If you want traction on the street, strip or rocks then the Detroit TruTrac LSD is not in the same league as a locking diff. The only LSD that is in the same league as a locking diff is the KAAZ.
The Detroit TruTrac is in the same league as the BW LSD and the 9" LSD. The Detroit TruTrac will wear out, just not as quickly as most other LSD's.
Edited by ls2lxhatch, 30 October 2010 - 01:22 PM.
#7
_HRV74_
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 05:53 PM
*Will still light up both wheels if you jump on the loud pedal, isn't this right Harv?
Yep, without fail:) Here's some shenanigans:
As for the the TruTrac wearing out, I was under the impression that they last a very long time. All I know is that I can't fault mine yet - on street or strip.
Cheers
H
#8
_youngy_11_
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:27 PM
So andy for a street strip application you would reccomend the LOKKA over the trutrac?
I know I don't have the choice tho.lol
I know I don't have the choice tho.lol
#9
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:11 PM
It is a difficult decision as you have to choose between maximum traction and smooth quiet operation.
I was faced with the same problem when trying to decide between the Detroit Locker and the Detroit TruTrac for my car. In the end I decided that smooth quiet operation is more important to me than maximum traction and went with the TruTrac. I do not intend to fit a cage in my hatch so maximum strip performance is not an issue for me.
If traction is an issue then the Detroit Locker will use 100% of traction available in both tyres whereas an LSD will not.
I was faced with the same problem when trying to decide between the Detroit Locker and the Detroit TruTrac for my car. In the end I decided that smooth quiet operation is more important to me than maximum traction and went with the TruTrac. I do not intend to fit a cage in my hatch so maximum strip performance is not an issue for me.
If traction is an issue then the Detroit Locker will use 100% of traction available in both tyres whereas an LSD will not.
#10
View GaragePosted 31 October 2010 - 06:30 AM
The surface is quite carefully controlled on a drag strip too, as a weekend racer surely this isn't a significant issue? Even an open centre diff can hook up OK on the drag strip when conditions are good. Burnouts on the other hand will magnify any small loss of traction...
#11
_nemo355v8_
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Posted 09 November 2010 - 07:06 PM
I do a lot of drag racing and changed from a true trac to a locker. I found when I got wheel spin off the line it is easier to get traction back with the locker centre.
With the true trac I would have to get nearly right off the throttle until the wheels bit again with the locker I can keep more throttle on and get my traction back.
The main reason I changed to the locker was tyre wear, with the true trac I would end up with one trye down to the depth indicator and the other still with 1/4 tread left, with the locker they will have to wear even.
Long 3rd gear burnout seem to wear tyres quickly
With the true trac I would have to get nearly right off the throttle until the wheels bit again with the locker I can keep more throttle on and get my traction back.
The main reason I changed to the locker was tyre wear, with the true trac I would end up with one trye down to the depth indicator and the other still with 1/4 tread left, with the locker they will have to wear even.
Long 3rd gear burnout seem to wear tyres quickly
#12
unclefestal34s
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Posted 09 November 2010 - 08:27 PM
from my own experience i can't go past a genuine detroit locker diff especially when using a manual transmission when drag racing,i find they are direct and positive on the drag-strip as well on the street..i have 2 detroit lockers in ford 9in form one as my diff guy tells me is a soft locker and the other one is a lot harsh and harder on the street you can really feel it sometimes taking off from traffic lights you go to take off and feels likes you have just broken the diff with the sound it makes,i guess after a while you get use to it..
i find a detroit locker comes in to its own when fast cornering and coming out of corners with the throttle on also big testicles are required as once you start trusting your skills with a reasonably setup car you appreciate the diff in comparison lsd's..a couple off my friends who use the tru-tracs as such like them cause there not as aggressive as the detroit lockers but agree when comes to serious driving the locker will deliver better traction..
also alot depends on what tyres your using and for application the car is setup for..
i find a detroit locker comes in to its own when fast cornering and coming out of corners with the throttle on also big testicles are required as once you start trusting your skills with a reasonably setup car you appreciate the diff in comparison lsd's..a couple off my friends who use the tru-tracs as such like them cause there not as aggressive as the detroit lockers but agree when comes to serious driving the locker will deliver better traction..
also alot depends on what tyres your using and for application the car is setup for..
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