I've always been curious when people use the term a "matching numbers car", especially when it comes to the old Torries. As far as I'm aware, identification stamping of vital components of the car did not occur till 1989 and the release of the VN Commodore.
In relation to the LH, is there any way to match the chassis number or VIN to the engine, transmission and gearbox numbers? I don't think there is. If not, is this just another crap term like NOS?
Matching Numbers Car????
Started by
_Unidentified_
, May 04 2006 10:13 PM
13 replies to this topic
#2
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:15 PM
In your replies, can you please advise of the particular model that you are using as a reference, i.e. HB/LC/LJ/TA/LH/LX/UC.
#3
smeer
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:44 PM
i remember thinking about this myself, so i went and had a look in the bay of my LC. It was a while ago so i don't remember exactly, but i recall the engine number appearing on either the tags or it was stamped onto the wheel arch. There was something that told me the engine belonged to the car. I'd check right now, if i had my car 
Edited by smeer, 04 May 2006 - 10:45 PM.
#4
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:45 PM
^ I'm assuming that is the LC/LJ you are referring to?
#5
smeer
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:46 PM
You're too quick, i updated the post just after 
#6
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:59 PM
Sorry dude, was just basing it on your AVTAR. All good info.
#7
_lx5008_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:24 PM
my opinion on a matching numbers car, take mine or even leakeys yellow hatch for eg: these cars have factory log books with all the body numbers and engine numbers in them. so as a guide you can see that these cars still have all matching numbers that they had when brand new. and the engine or even the chassis numbers have not been changed. that is a matching numbers car!!!!
#8
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:31 PM
Okies, thanks for that LX5008, that shines a heap of light on it. So that would be the only place that all these numbers are noted down. Just for clarification, when you say factory log books, is that the original Owner's Manual, or the Service Book (Are they two for the old beasts or just all in the one Owner's Manual) ? Or the original delivery docket? (Found one for the VN Commodore under the carpet when I replaced it the other day!!!).
Graeme (???--> LX5008) you gonna come stay with us at the Muscle Car Masters in September?
Graeme (???--> LX5008) you gonna come stay with us at the Muscle Car Masters in September?
Edited by Yella SLuR, 04 May 2006 - 11:39 PM.
#9
_lx5008_
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:40 PM
yah i saw a vz the other day and it had its vin number under the carpet under the r/h/f seat. which is the one under the windscreen on left side.
i would have to uncover the torrie and check i cant remember which one had all the numbers on them.
i would have to uncover the torrie and check i cant remember which one had all the numbers on them.
#10
Dr Terry
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 07:05 AM
Hi Guys.
The term 'matching numbers' can be used in 2 ways.
1st, the way mentioned above, where the car is totally original & all the ID numbers (chassis, body, engine. PSN etc etc.) 'match' the original owners manual. Depending on which make or model we are taliking about because some cars have 1 owners manual & some have 2 with the servive log book as a separate item. Remember this term is not just for Toranas & not just used in Australia, I think it's one of those American terms that we have inherited.
2nd, many American cars, Fords & Chevs etc & also Australian Fords have the same serial number for the engine & chassis. They might have different prefixes but the serial number component is the same. This way simply by looking at the chassis number & engine, you can tell if the engnine is the original from the factory, without referring to lists or doing any research. In other words the numbers 'match'.
Yella SLuR mention the term NOS being 'crap'. NOS simply means 'new old stock', in other words still new & unused in the box or original wrapper or with the original tag etc. but old redundant or surplus stock from years gone by. Admittedly it has been abused by cheats who put old used parts into genuine boxes & claiming them to be NOS, quite often seen on ebay, but this still doesn't make the term 'crap', it still has a valid meaning.
Dr Terry
The term 'matching numbers' can be used in 2 ways.
1st, the way mentioned above, where the car is totally original & all the ID numbers (chassis, body, engine. PSN etc etc.) 'match' the original owners manual. Depending on which make or model we are taliking about because some cars have 1 owners manual & some have 2 with the servive log book as a separate item. Remember this term is not just for Toranas & not just used in Australia, I think it's one of those American terms that we have inherited.
2nd, many American cars, Fords & Chevs etc & also Australian Fords have the same serial number for the engine & chassis. They might have different prefixes but the serial number component is the same. This way simply by looking at the chassis number & engine, you can tell if the engnine is the original from the factory, without referring to lists or doing any research. In other words the numbers 'match'.
Yella SLuR mention the term NOS being 'crap'. NOS simply means 'new old stock', in other words still new & unused in the box or original wrapper or with the original tag etc. but old redundant or surplus stock from years gone by. Admittedly it has been abused by cheats who put old used parts into genuine boxes & claiming them to be NOS, quite often seen on ebay, but this still doesn't make the term 'crap', it still has a valid meaning.
Dr Terry
#11
_torana_
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 07:38 AM
my impression is that matching numbers means the chassis number matches the id plate number on the drivers side firewall, this way you can tell if the id plates have been changed and the car is dodgy. ( this is why on ebay you often see id plates and the actual chassis number cut from the frame for sale ) helps rebirthers sell a car as something when its actually not.
see this thread for more info
http://www.gmh-toran...p?showtopic=376
There appears to be no way to tell if the motor is matching to a car, you can only go off the number on the block to get a rough estimation date on when it was made, and see if its roughly the same
see this thread for more info
http://www.gmh-toran...p?showtopic=376
There appears to be no way to tell if the motor is matching to a car, you can only go off the number on the block to get a rough estimation date on when it was made, and see if its roughly the same
#12
Dr Terry
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 08:21 AM
Hi Guys.
Yes, torana that is another matching number scenario, but this only works for Australian market cars & only after 1970. It it because the chassis number stamping must match the chassis number stamped (or embossed) on the ADR compliance plate & this plate only exists on those cars.
Problem is. you can swap all the body ID plates & the engine & it won't show up, because the nothing on the ADR plate matches anything on the body plates or the engine.
The situation is a bit different on later Holdens. because by the 80s the PSN (VIN) serial number & body number are the same & by the time of the VN, they merged the PSN & the chassis numbers into the new 17 digit 'ISOVIN'.
Dr Terry.
Yes, torana that is another matching number scenario, but this only works for Australian market cars & only after 1970. It it because the chassis number stamping must match the chassis number stamped (or embossed) on the ADR compliance plate & this plate only exists on those cars.
Problem is. you can swap all the body ID plates & the engine & it won't show up, because the nothing on the ADR plate matches anything on the body plates or the engine.
The situation is a bit different on later Holdens. because by the 80s the PSN (VIN) serial number & body number are the same & by the time of the VN, they merged the PSN & the chassis numbers into the new 17 digit 'ISOVIN'.
Dr Terry.
#13
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 10:35 AM
Or new parts moulded from original parts in China seems to be the new alternative.NOS simply means 'new old stock', in other words still new & unused in the box or original wrapper or with the original tag etc. but old redundant or surplus stock from years gone by.
#14
_Yella SLuR_
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 10:37 AM
Interesting info as always Dr. Terry, your a gem. I'll have a look at that other article Torana. All info is good info.
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