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Paiting 1k Etch Primer OVER Bog

Started by _shadowmaster_ , Jul 06 2011 05:46 PM

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23 replies to this topic

#1 _shadowmaster_

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:46 PM

Just a quick question... Im just wondering what peoples thoughts were on putting Single Pack Etch directly over bog?

Are there going to be an adhesion issues or will it still be ok ? where im at is the panels are bare metal, i put the bog in the areas and now want to etch the pannel

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#2 _Quagmire_

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:06 PM

2k etch is better from what i've read (i don't have a booth so I stay away from 2 pack)
but if your prep is right i doubt you will have problems If your top coating in acyrillic

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#3 S pack

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:12 PM

Just a quick question... Im just wondering what peoples thoughts were on putting Single Pack Etch directly over bog?

Are there going to be an adhesion issues or will it still be ok ? where im at is the panels are bare metal, i put the bog in the areas and now want to etch the pannel

Spray away to your hearts content. You don't really need etch primer on bare steel. Etch primer was designed for and is necessary to enhance adhesion to non-ferrous metals like aluminium, copper, lead, stainless steel etc. It is important to etch prime any lead wiped joints and repairs.

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#4 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:17 PM

Your joking arnt you S pack??

I hope so, but if so then you shouldnt make jokes like that unless someone takes you literally.

Shadowmaster, yep no worries mate. Though 1k etch is a bit on the shithouse side, but better than nothing.

Cheers.

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#5 71xu1

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 08:56 PM

Definetly etch just make sure you use one that is non porous so it protects the metal and your repairs from the environment eg Wattyl supert etch.

Cheers Dave

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#6 _Kush_

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 10:38 PM

Your joking arnt you S pack??

I hope so, but if so then you shouldnt make jokes like that unless someone takes you literally.

Shadowmaster, yep no worries mate. Though 1k etch is a bit on the shithouse side, but better than nothing.

Cheers.

Bomber, I know bugger all about paint, but what I do know is that etch is for non-ferrous metals. Yes "we" use it just for peace of mind, but it's not necessary.
I know you don't etch prime the stuff you paint..... I've got a good idea how it works in industrial paint shops. I've worked in one too.

Edited by Kush, 06 July 2011 - 10:40 PM.

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#7 S pack

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 11:46 PM

Your joking arnt you S pack??

I hope so, but if so then you shouldnt make jokes like that unless someone takes you literally.

Shadowmaster, yep no worries mate. Though 1k etch is a bit on the shithouse side, but better than nothing.

Cheers.

Don't you use etch primer on non ferrous metals Bomber????
Dug this out, it's possibly as old or older than you .

Posted Image

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#8 71xu1

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 03:45 PM

You better ring up Holden and all the other car manufacturers and tell them they have been wasting money all these years on etch primer as they really don't need it. Etch is essential on ferrous metals as well as the phosphoric acid in it makes it etch into the metal for adhesion so it's a key coat for the primer. Yeah most panel shops don't do it because it's just another step you can generally leave out. Each to his own I suppose. By the by if you finish reading the label it also says treat bare metal areas as in spot repairs not non ferrous.

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#9 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:31 PM

WTF???

I didnt say you shouldnt use it over non ferrous metals, i said you SHOULD use it over ferrous metals as well.

Also your quoting a tin that as you say is as old or older than me, would you like to know a thing or two about CURRENT paint technology??

If you guys really want i can go into a long speel about why, but to put it in a real quick nutshell if you dont etch the metal and get a stone chip, rust will continue under the paint and you will get nice bubbles. If you do use an etch then the damage will be confined to the area of the stone chip and not travel under the paint.

Kush, I generally DONT use it at work over bare steel because i use a Zink Phosphate based 2k epoxy which does the job of an etch and a filler, or for little jobs i use a 1k Zink Phosphate based Alklide Resin that also seems to perform better than 1k etch. But most people spraying in there shed dont have access to that or dont want to use 2k so 1k etch is the next thing....The OP was asking about 1k etches so thats what were talking about, So i dont know what your on about. Perhaps you should have stuck with the first 7 words of your post???

Sometimes i wonder why the frOck i bother trying to help people.

Cheers.

Edited by Bomber Watson, 07 July 2011 - 05:44 PM.

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#10 _Kush_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:46 PM

Bomber, you should know by now that anything I post after 8:30pm is complete drunken nonsense.
I just looked at what I posted and even I don't know what the f#ck I was on about!

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#11 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 05:59 PM

To easy brother. You wernt that far off, you hit the nail on the head with "I know you don't etch prime the stuff you paint....." just unsure you knew why :tease:

Realistically "etch" as such is just a generic term used now days, 2k Zink Phosphate based Epoxy's have totally replaced them. 1k etch just remains for small spot repairs and people painting stuff at home.

Cheers.

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#12 _shadowmaster_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:13 PM

I do appreciate the input so far but so far what everyone is talking about is the adhesion to metal, im aware of the fact i need to use etch over bare metal but my question was more when the etch is directly on top of exposed bog... will the etch adhere to BOG without issues down the track.

Thanks

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#13 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:20 PM

Shadowmaster, yep no worries mate. Though 1k etch is a bit on the shithouse side, but better than nothing.

Should have been clearer, that was a Yep no worries regarding to putting etch over bog....

Cheers.

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#14 _nial8r_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 07:50 PM

PFFT Wattle solar gaurd 4 seaons and a paint brush :buttrock:

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#15 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 08:08 PM

10 year guarantee

Cheers.

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#16 S pack

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Posted 07 July 2011 - 10:34 PM

You better ring up Holden and all the other car manufacturers and tell them they have been wasting money all these years on etch primer as they really don't need it. Etch is essential on ferrous metals as well as the phosphoric acid in it makes it etch into the metal for adhesion so it's a key coat for the primer. Yeah most panel shops don't do it because it's just another step you can generally leave out. Each to his own I suppose. By the by if you finish reading the label it also says treat bare metal areas as in spot repairs not non ferrous.

G/day Dave

The label on the can only makes reference to etch primer being needed on non ferrous metals. The part of the label you refer to about spot repairs is a reference to (when read in the whole context of the label) conditioning all bare metal with Deoxidine 624 prior to application of the primer.

BTW, information I have about GMH painting procedures (circa 1971) make no mention of etch primer being used. It mentions a variety of different primers used for different purposes but not one mention of etch primer. If GMH did use etch primer it must have been called by another name.

Now to reply in general to other comments made on this subject.

1st, I never said etch primer couldn't be used on bare metal. However, AFAIK if the bare metal is conditioned with Deoxidine (Phosphoric acid; the same active ingredient in etch primer) immediately prior to primer application then etch primer should not be required.

Hmmm, maybe I should track down the guys (if they're still alive 30yrs on) from the Dulux trade centre that sold automotive paint and gave advice about it's application and tell them they were wrong and should have told people they must always use etch primer on bare steel.
While I'm at it I might tell Dulux the instructions on their products were incomplete and they were negligent for not mentioning MUST use etch primer on bare steel.

2nd, Bomber, no I'm not up to speed with the ins and outs of the latest 2k paint technology but as you said, this thread is about 1k not 2k paints.
I'll leave technical comment on 2k paints well alone.

In the end we'll agree to disagree but as has already been said 'each to their own'.

Cheers
Dave.

Edited by S pack, 07 July 2011 - 10:36 PM.

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#17 _nial8r_

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 10:37 AM

10 year guarantee

Cheers.

yep sure is, try getting a panel shop to give ya 10yr warrenty :lol:

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#18 _Quagmire_

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 01:07 PM

10 year guarantee

Cheers.

yep sure is,

that's british paints
you goose :stirpot:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1bUkEjmu78o

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#19 _Bomber Watson_

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Posted 08 July 2011 - 07:31 PM

1st, I never said etch primer couldn't be used on bare metal. However, AFAIK if the bare metal is conditioned with Deoxidine (Phosphoric acid; the same active ingredient in etch primer) immediately prior to primer application then etch primer should not be required.

Correct, but try deoxidineing near bog and see what happens.

You know Acrylic technology has changed in the last 30 years to mate ey lol.

Cheers.

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#20 _nial8r_

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:04 AM

10 year guarantee

Cheers.

yep sure is,

that's british paints
you goose
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1bUkEjmu78o

lol shit he was young then

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#21 S pack

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 10:55 PM

1st, I never said etch primer couldn't be used on bare metal. However, AFAIK if the bare metal is conditioned with Deoxidine (Phosphoric acid; the same active ingredient in etch primer) immediately prior to primer application then etch primer should not be required.

Correct, but try deoxidineing near bog and see what happens.

You know Acrylic technology has changed in the last 30 years to mate ey lol.

Cheers.

G'day Bomber

That wouldn't surprise me in the least that Acrylic paint technology has changed/improved. Been quite some time since I did any spray painting.

As far as using deoxidine near bog, yes been there done that.

Must apologise to you for this [Don't you use etch primer on non ferrous metals Bomber????]
Was having a stir, I knew exactly what you meant. Sorry about that mate.

Cheers
Dave.