would some advice on the differances both good and bad on geardrives vs double row chains. not interested in hearing about the noise factor, just whats better suited to an engine with a big solid and high spring pressures that will get flogged to death.
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#2
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 07 November 2011 - 02:49 AM
Belt drive has advantages over both gear drive and chain drive. The main downside of gear drive is that vibration is transmitted into the valve train.
#3
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Posted 07 November 2011 - 03:05 AM
yep i know the belt would be the pinical of choices but of course as with anything thats awesome, costs a fortune. i have both a geardrive and a chain, plan to use one or the other. ive read about the harmonic vibration to the top end but dose that outway chain strech with big spring pressures? these are the things inquiring minds need to know?
#4
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Posted 07 November 2011 - 01:22 PM
Ask Tiny about gear drives, his Chev 400 shit itself due to the vibration snapping the oil pick up. $6500 later, he was back on the road with a chain drive.
#5
Lima31
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Posted 07 November 2011 - 02:26 PM
I would go chain. I understand there are some benefits to gear drives, but I also understand that the vibration leads to increased wear rates which to me suggests more risk of metal pieces in the oil system before you change the oil or find a problem. Perhaps a hardened gear set that is properly set up wouldn't have as much of an issue.
#6
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:17 AM
i was allways under the thought that a geardrive transfered harmonic vibrations from the crank, thru the cam, into the top end causeing potential damage up top as well as the risk of metal in the system. i cant work out how a geardrive would increase vibrations in a bottom end intence enough to snap off an oil pickup? that sounds more like an out of balance bottom end to me or just a straight out faulty pickup? knowing chevs it would be a melings pump wich are know for looseing pickups all the time.ive never realy played with holden engines much except to pull them out and replace them with a chev but with the chevs i know steel chain gears are nuthing but trouble. ive destroyed 2 350 blocks in the past from the cam gear trying to eat its way backwards thru the block. i assume the cam retainer in a holden v8 would stop this problem. the other problem i had was in every chev ive ever owned u could put on a good chain like jp or rollmaster etc, start the engine, pull off the timeing cover and the chain would be streched. it seems to me both have major problems.
#7
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:19 AM
Check out Tiny's build thread, most of the details are in there.
#8
dattoman
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:21 AM
I checked out the Jesel drives
I think they are cheap insurance if they will end the risk of a busted camshaft
Cost alot more to fix broken parts than fit the right parts to start with
I think they are cheap insurance if they will end the risk of a busted camshaft
Cost alot more to fix broken parts than fit the right parts to start with
#9
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:01 PM
been lookin on the web for belt drives and the only one i could find for a holden v8 is made by ross, part no. 118800 couldnt find anyone that actualy stocked them or a price either.
#10
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:46 PM
I've seen COME Racing use a belt drive on their Holden 396ci V8 setup. Maybe give them a try?
#11
ls2lxhatch
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:50 PM
Don't known anything about this company but they list a belt drive for a 308.
http://rossperforman...ve_systems.html#
http://rossperforman...ve_systems.html#
#12
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:59 PM
Ross Balancers - Blacktown, NSW, 2148 - (02) 9676-1466
Looks like one of their sets on the COME engine?
Looks like one of their sets on the COME engine?
Edited by rodomo, 11 November 2011 - 12:00 AM.
#13
dattoman
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:01 AM
Yep thats Ross
Very reputable
I run their balancers on a couple of my engines
I'll make some enquiries tomorrow with my Ross suppliers
Very reputable
I run their balancers on a couple of my engines
I'll make some enquiries tomorrow with my Ross suppliers
#14
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:05 AM
yep those are the ones i found but as i said, couldnt find a price or supplyer. looks to me like it would be in the 1500$ range?
#15
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Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:47 PM
Chains are better than gears, because of harmonics. Harmonics are usually high frequency vibrations and can give all sorts of problems. From breaking parts to affecting timing. I had one engine(chain drine, but only 6" balancer on 377ci) that would shake the flexplate or convertor loose every couple of meetings. Also when I pulled engine down, oil pickup had come out of the pump, wingage tray had cracks all over. All from harmonics. When I changed balancers, problem went away altogether.
If you check some of the US engine fprums and look through, there's some threads on gear drives. I have read some with dyno tests showing up to 30hp loss with a gear drive.
I've just put an engine together that has 390 lb on the seat and 900lb on the nose. Still with chain.
While one lobe is pushing a spring open, another will be putting the same force on a lobe going closed. It kinda balances out.
If you check some of the US engine fprums and look through, there's some threads on gear drives. I have read some with dyno tests showing up to 30hp loss with a gear drive.
I've just put an engine together that has 390 lb on the seat and 900lb on the nose. Still with chain.
While one lobe is pushing a spring open, another will be putting the same force on a lobe going closed. It kinda balances out.
#16
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Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:32 PM
a 30hp loss? that is interesting. most threads u read claim a gain. is good we r getting some interesting points of veiw here. yep ur harmonic problem is kinda what i was thinking with the above mentioned post looseing the oil pickup, and u were running a chain. had a mate whos 400 kept spiting balencers off the crank. holy shit 900lbs? roller?
#17
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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:58 AM
I've run "Diecrest" brand gear drives in almost all my holden v8 engines since 1986 and have never had a problem with them. They are fiddly to set up with a few mods to the timing cover required, but I love them. As long as you put the oiler in facing the right way I don't see any potential problems. I haven't put one in a Chev, so can't comment on them.
#18
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:18 PM
just out of interest i email the guys that make that belt drive ^^^^^^ they r $3000rrp only manufactured when an order of 10 go in and they do give 20% trade disscount and if u order 10 at a time they discount them some more. HOLY frOck!!!!!!!!
#19
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:20 PM
So you didn't put your name down for a couple then?
#20
dattoman
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:47 PM
Best get the billet timing cover to house it all too.... shiney
#21
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:09 PM
if you used a chain drive in place of a gear drive how do you go with valve timing and ign timing,seeing as the cam will be turning in the oposite direction
Phillip
Phillip
#22
rodomo
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:20 PM
The gears, crank and cam, aren't in mesh with each other. There are idler gears that change the direction, hence the harmonics problem.
http://www.ebay.com....=item3f100ee9a5
http://www.ebay.com....=item3f100ee9a5
Edited by rodomo, 16 November 2011 - 09:21 PM.
#23
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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:44 PM
i actualy read an artical about smokey uinic who did actualy have a race eng with a gear drive that did exactly that. only had a cam gear and a crank gear no idelers and the cam did go backwards. custom cam of course. kinda the same as a holden 6. reckons it was awesome?? he knew his shit. anyway as for the belts shit yeah i ordered 50 just tryin to get that extra 1% off. and people wonder y other ppl dont buy aust made products? 3k?? they have to be jokeing. i thought it would be expencive at 1500.
#24
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Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:57 PM
hi guys i know this is an old old thred but for those that are interested a guy in nz is now makeing belt cam drives for holden v8s for a very reasonable 1900nzd, works out atm about 1450aud, heads raceing supplies is the place. i just ordered one. they supplied the one on that c.o.m.e 396 eng.
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