Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

The 161 Red Motor Screeema

Started by wot179 , Dec 04 2011 08:43 PM

Starter motor issues

Next

Please log in to reply

27 replies to this topic

#1 wot179

Green Eggs and Spam

Members
6,784 posts

Name:Jesus Bloody Christ
Location:Sunny Santa Maria
Car:Goon
Joined: 06-February 09

Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:43 PM

Together with a research analysist from Dow Corning,I have been developing a new type of oil ring for the mighty red 6.

It is an O-ring type oil ring,with 29.5% silicon content.

Posted Image

To this point,results have been promising.

Bedding in issues have been virtually eliminated,as we are using simple beef tallow as a lubricant.

Smells like a chip shop when you first kick it in the guts,but by using E85 this issue is minimised.

The biggest problem encountered to this point has been overcoming the piss weak red6 starter motor iand its ability to crank the engine over.

It is my understanding that there is a Dellow adapter available for using a 253 starter motor as a solution.

Posted Image

Has anyone used this style of adapter to overcome this issue?

Back to top

#2 _toranarama_

Guests

Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:52 PM

Multiple cans of Woodstock + o rings

I can see where this is headed ! :driving:

Back to top

#3 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:22 PM

Rocket science mate!...........................................Pure GENIUS! :spoton:

From memory, you can drill and tap a steel Holden/Landrover conversion plate and use that?

Back to top

#4 TerrA LX

Fulcrum Fixture

Members
14,241 posts

Location:Sid 'n' knee
Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:43 PM

About time someone showed up on this forum with some enginuity, Hey Wot I've been looking into a control ring that will last in my 253 screemers, do you think your mate at Dow Corning would be interested in knocking up some of those o rings for a 308 piston to squeeze into a 253?

Back to top

#5 TerrA LX

Fulcrum Fixture

Members
14,241 posts

Location:Sid 'n' knee
Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:46 PM

Multiple cans of Woodstock + o rings

I can see where this is headed !

Anyone with any idea could see that this thread has Jenuinly Distinguished input.

Back to top

#6 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:18 PM

Does the "O" ring roll in the groove as the piston goes up and down?
I wonder if square section "O" rings would be better? You know, like the ones on oil filters? :dontknow:

Back to top

#7 _toranarama_

Guests

Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:23 PM

There used to be an aftermarket Hi-Torque red 6 starter available, are you using one?

Back to top

#8 wot179

Green Eggs and Spam

Members
6,784 posts

Name:Jesus Bloody Christ
Location:Sunny Santa Maria
Car:Goon
Joined: 06-February 09

Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:26 PM

I originally just pumped sikaflex into the oilring groove and dropped the piston into a wellgreased bore to let it set,creating a square edged o (square)ring as you suggest.

But it wouldnt rotate and oil kept sneaking past, washing petrol off the bore,so it was a fail.

Stick with the o-ring,mate,and you wont look back.

Rocket science mate!...........................................Pure GENIUS!

From memory, you can drill and tap a steel Holden/Landrover conversion plate and use that?

Geeze.....can you still buy them new? A genius suggestion I had never considered.(goes to look on ebay)...

Back to top

#9 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:27 PM

Roller ring!.......................I like it!..........................Has a certain ring to it?

Back to top

#10 Bazza

ǝɹnʇxıɟ ɯnɹoɟ

Members
4,295 posts

Location:Outer Melb West Vic
Car:ɐuɐɹoʇ
Joined: 11-November 05

Posted 04 December 2011 - 10:28 PM

Hi

I would go here before someone else gets in on the act

http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/

Cheers

Bazza

Back to top

#11 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 04 December 2011 - 11:17 PM

QUICK!

Back to top

#12 _oldjohnno_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:15 AM

All good with the special rings and the beef tallow (mmmm tallow...) but you goofed up on the Dellow adaptor.

The one you want doesn't use a 253 starter, it uses a 253 as the starter (hey, they've gotta be good for something). You may have to massage the inner guard and firewall slightly for clearance.

Back to top

#13 _CHOPPER_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 02:59 PM

Does the "O" ring roll in the groove as the piston goes up and down?
I wonder if square section "O" rings would be better? You know, like the ones on oil filters?

To use a square section "O" ring rquires a square hole to be drilled using a square drill bit.

Back to top

#14 _double_d_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:27 PM

shit i did this years ago to a mower , lol
when i was 18 the old fella next door seen me mucking around with an old mower i bought and gave me another the same
i built one out of the two
and when our lease was up we decided to move the old fella came over and asked for his mower back that never went mind you
i put it back together with an o ring in it hopeing it would last long enough till i was gone then burn away
never heard about it after that
lol , its probably still going

Back to top

#15 TerrA LX

Fulcrum Fixture

Members
14,241 posts

Location:Sid 'n' knee
Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:18 PM

shit i did this years ago to a mower , lol...
i put it back together with an o ring in it hopeing it would last long enough till i was gone then burn away

Do you remember what lube you used to re assemble the motor with?

Back to top

#16 _hutch_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:44 PM

as far as the starter goes all ya need to do is swap the nose cone from the 1.0 KW 6 cylinder starter onto the 1.6 KW v8 starter,and take off the rear mount,and bobs ya auntie
Phillip

Back to top

#17 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:54 PM

This would go well with a cylinder head design im working on...

Just a 12 port with no valves in it. I have put welsh plugs in the valve guides.

The "cam timing" will be controlled by pulse tuning, carefully designed lengh runners on the intake and exhaust to put the pulses in the exact correct timing to allow the engine to operate like normal.

Hardest thing to work out is how to get a starter motor to turn it to the 18000rpm required for this pulse tuning to take effect....

Cheers.

Back to top

#18 micklx

Forum Fixture

Members
1,785 posts

Name:Mick
Location:Frankston South
Joined: 18-November 05

Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:41 PM

Bomber, this engine without valves of yours, how much compression do you plan on having ?

Back to top

#19 TerrA LX

Fulcrum Fixture

Members
14,241 posts

Location:Sid 'n' knee
Joined: 31-May 06

Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:01 PM

Atmospheric...

Back to top

#20 _oldjohnno_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:14 PM

This would go well with a cylinder head design im working on...

Just a 12 port with no valves in it. I have put welsh plugs in the valve guides.

The "cam timing" will be controlled by pulse tuning, carefully designed lengh runners on the intake and exhaust to put the pulses in the exact correct timing to allow the engine to operate like normal.

Hardest thing to work out is how to get a starter motor to turn it to the 18000rpm required for this pulse tuning to take effect....

Cheers.

The funny thing is that fully functional engines have been used that employed nothing more than wave tuning for cylinder charging and scavenging. The piston did no pumping work whatsoever. They were used early last century to drive a generator, an application where their ability to run at only one speed was more of an advantage than a weakness. To start them they had to be motored up to speed and a blast of compressed air shot into the intake pipe.

I'm guessing the pipes would have been quite a bit longer than the ones on your 18k 202 though...

Back to top

#21 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:19 PM

It's still got me buggered how these things work?
http://en.wikipedia....ve_supercharger
Probably cos I have a short attention span? (I was A.D.D. before it became fashionable)
I haven't read/thought it through.

Ex Mrs had one on an imported Mazda diesel and it went like stink.........................for a diesel.

Back to top

#22 _oldjohnno_

Guests

Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:55 PM

It's still got me buggered how these things work?

Think of a rotor shaped like the drum of a revolver or six-shooter, with end plates having round ports. Exhaust gas enters one end and compresses the air, jamming it up the opposite end of the chamber. At this point the port at that end opens, allowing the compressed air to be forced into the cylinder but the port closes just in time to prevent exhaust gas from carrying over into the cylinder. Pressure waves are able to pass freely through both the exhaust and the fresh charge, without much mingling of the actual particles.
Soon after this both ends are opened allowing the exhaust to well, exhaust, and pull in a fresh charge of air. Supercharging is possible because of the heat and energy of the exhaust gas being able to pull and push a volume of air greater than the cylinder capacity.
That's a simple explanation and the actual construction might be a bit different but I hope you get the idea.

Back to top

#23 rodomo

To advertise here, call 13TORANA

Members
18,051 posts

Name:R - O - B Dammit!
Location:Way out west of Melbourne Awstraylya
Joined: 10-December 05

Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:30 PM

Thanks Johnno.........................I actually had to read that 3 times to take it all in. :fool:

What happened with the Ex's was the belt broke, all hell broke loose, gasses were going where they weren't wanted/needed and nylon internal bits melted (bearing seals) smoked out the exhaust worse than Puffing Billy .........................................................$700 later and no warranty, a brand new second hand one was fitted and then the car was sold. :wacko: