I've had this particular WW Stromberg for about 4 months now ... it was running fine at first but now it's pumping out that lovely $1.49/L black smoke even more and more. At first I thought the tuning was slipping out but when I took it to some dude to tune he said it would need a recondition.
On getting a quote for a reco it was somewhere around the $200 mark which I just cannot afford at this time but need to do something about that unburnt fuel.
I guess I have a few options but I'd love some clarification or opinions on this.
-Just deal with it ... fork out that money for some dude to take the carby apart and replace stuff.
-I've put a carby kit through a single barrel stromberg before ... would that be all it needed or are there more complicated things that I just wouldn't be able to do?
-Buy a different carby setup ... if anyone on here has a WW Stromberg that's in working order that I could put in place of this one or another setup completely I'll happily pay something reasonable.
I think thats it really ... bah ... it's really annoying ... 19-20L/100km is not fun ... as this is my daily I need to sort it out soon.
Cheers
-Al
stupid damn carburettor ...
Started by
_LC2250_
, Jun 08 2006 03:44 PM
15 replies to this topic
#2
_gm3300_
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:15 PM
if nothing has been adjusted since it was running fine, i would be suspect of the float level-needle and seat.
First thing to check is that the needle is not jammed open with a bit of rubbish, you should be able to take it off without removing the carb, i had the same problem with my single strommy, fixed it with a in-line filter just after the tank.
The other thing is the float might have a hole in it, and has sunk after slowly filling with fuel over time, you'll need to remove the carb top, take the float out and shake it to check this.
The WW2 isn't much more complex than a single stromberg, there is a few adjustments for the acc pump stroke, and auto choke setup, but if these were working properly, you shouldn't need to fiddle with them anyway.
grant
First thing to check is that the needle is not jammed open with a bit of rubbish, you should be able to take it off without removing the carb, i had the same problem with my single strommy, fixed it with a in-line filter just after the tank.
The other thing is the float might have a hole in it, and has sunk after slowly filling with fuel over time, you'll need to remove the carb top, take the float out and shake it to check this.
The WW2 isn't much more complex than a single stromberg, there is a few adjustments for the acc pump stroke, and auto choke setup, but if these were working properly, you shouldn't need to fiddle with them anyway.
grant
Edited by gm3300, 08 June 2006 - 04:15 PM.
#3
rodomo
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 04:57 PM
What motor is it on? Is it a off a 253? The piston that operates the power valve has a tiny welch plug in the end of it that has a tendency to fall out. If this happens the power valve is always open and fuel consumption goes through the roof. A bit tricky (but not impossable) to fix as it is peened into the airhorn.
#4
_LC2250_
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Posted 08 June 2006 - 05:42 PM
gm3300: the thing about this is that it doesn't blow any smoke until it's pretty much under full throttle ... then it goes berzerk. I guess it sounds more reasonable than I thought it would be to open it up ... I was just scared that I'd break something if I opened it up ... not a problem that it's relatively similar to the single barrel one then. Would these symptoms of mine still be caused by what you have suggested?
rodomo: it's from a 253. I'm just curious about some more detail on getting to these parts that you've described. Would fixing just be a case of replacing this welch plug. One more thing that has got me thinking it could be what you've described is that I've had an awful lot of trouble getting the idle down to a reasonable level (700rpm or so) so it being always open I guess would explain this maybe ...
hmm ... I guess my next step is to open the thing up ... I'll just have to make do with the single stromberg from the old 138 in the meanwhile :(
Cheers
-Al
rodomo: it's from a 253. I'm just curious about some more detail on getting to these parts that you've described. Would fixing just be a case of replacing this welch plug. One more thing that has got me thinking it could be what you've described is that I've had an awful lot of trouble getting the idle down to a reasonable level (700rpm or so) so it being always open I guess would explain this maybe ...
hmm ... I guess my next step is to open the thing up ... I'll just have to make do with the single stromberg from the old 138 in the meanwhile :(
Cheers
-Al
#5
rodomo
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 12:43 AM
If you are having trouble with idle under 700 (and your motor is stockish) chances are it is flooding. Float level or needle and seat fault.
You didn't tell me what size your motor was?
If it is 2250 and you have a 253 ww on it (and the rest of the motor is stock) the chances are it is WAY over jetted. The max you might get away with would be a ww2 jetted to LC 161 gtr spec.
Any way here is the procedure.
Remove the airhorn off the top of the carby. Locate an elongated "D" shaped port in the bottom of the airhorn. Apply vacuum to this port and the piston assy.(Its the small rod with the spring on it hanging down from the airhorn)should lift into the airhorn body.
If it doesn't.
Use soft jaws. Hold the airhorn upside down in a vice. Get a sharp screw driver and "machine" (dig out) the factory "peans" that hold the washer of the piston assy. into the airhorn body. Wiggle the power valve piston out of the airhorn body. If the tiny "welch plug" has fallen out, put it on the back of your vice (the flat anvil looking bit) and give it 1 gentelish (is that a word?) tap with a hammer to expand it. Support the base of the piston between the jaws of the vice (dont grip the piston in the vice rather have the piston straddle the jaws). Tap the "welch plug" back into the piston using a punch the size of the outer rim of the plug. Dont use a punch that fits into the "well" of the plug as this could make it smaller (un-expand) as you tap it in. Refit the assy. to the airhorn. Fit the washer flush and re-pean with a flat punch (the same shape as fact. punch/pean marks). Reassemble carb and thrash car and note results.
You didn't tell me what size your motor was?
If it is 2250 and you have a 253 ww on it (and the rest of the motor is stock) the chances are it is WAY over jetted. The max you might get away with would be a ww2 jetted to LC 161 gtr spec.
Any way here is the procedure.
Remove the airhorn off the top of the carby. Locate an elongated "D" shaped port in the bottom of the airhorn. Apply vacuum to this port and the piston assy.(Its the small rod with the spring on it hanging down from the airhorn)should lift into the airhorn body.
If it doesn't.
Use soft jaws. Hold the airhorn upside down in a vice. Get a sharp screw driver and "machine" (dig out) the factory "peans" that hold the washer of the piston assy. into the airhorn body. Wiggle the power valve piston out of the airhorn body. If the tiny "welch plug" has fallen out, put it on the back of your vice (the flat anvil looking bit) and give it 1 gentelish (is that a word?) tap with a hammer to expand it. Support the base of the piston between the jaws of the vice (dont grip the piston in the vice rather have the piston straddle the jaws). Tap the "welch plug" back into the piston using a punch the size of the outer rim of the plug. Dont use a punch that fits into the "well" of the plug as this could make it smaller (un-expand) as you tap it in. Refit the assy. to the airhorn. Fit the washer flush and re-pean with a flat punch (the same shape as fact. punch/pean marks). Reassemble carb and thrash car and note results.
Edited by rodomo, 10 June 2006 - 12:46 AM.
#6
_LC2250_
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 01:12 AM
it's a 202 that has been rebuilt about 6 months ago ... that'd be crazy running a ww strommy on a 138 
I have a feeling the idle thing is something else ... it's as though I cannot get the throttle thing to sit back against the idle screw ... think thats a different problem all together but it may all be part of the same thing I guess.
That procedure seems fairly straight forward with the exception of "Support the base of the piston between the jaws of the vice (dont grip the piston in the vice rather have the piston straddle the jaws)" but I believe when I view it when I open it up tomorrow it will make more sense ...
This welch plug that you say is commonly known to fall out of place ... is there a way I can make it less likely to fall out again if that turns out to be the problem?
I'll have a look at this either tomorrow (saturday) or sunday and see if there are any other quetsions.
Thanks a heap for your time...
Cheers
-Al
I have a feeling the idle thing is something else ... it's as though I cannot get the throttle thing to sit back against the idle screw ... think thats a different problem all together but it may all be part of the same thing I guess.
That procedure seems fairly straight forward with the exception of "Support the base of the piston between the jaws of the vice (dont grip the piston in the vice rather have the piston straddle the jaws)" but I believe when I view it when I open it up tomorrow it will make more sense ...
This welch plug that you say is commonly known to fall out of place ... is there a way I can make it less likely to fall out again if that turns out to be the problem?
I'll have a look at this either tomorrow (saturday) or sunday and see if there are any other quetsions.
Thanks a heap for your time...
Cheers
-Al
#7
rodomo
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 01:33 AM
If it idles too high and you have your idle adjustment backed right off, it is more than likely "sucking air". In other words it is getting air into the motor from a source rather than past the butterfly's in the carby. This equates to a manifold leak generally.
You have to support the piston itself; as that is the part that you are driving the plug into. If you hold the sides of the piston in the vice and you tap the plug into it, the chances are as you are doing this the piston would slip downward in the vice and score the sides of the piston.
The plug falling out of the piston is common.
Good luck!
You have to support the piston itself; as that is the part that you are driving the plug into. If you hold the sides of the piston in the vice and you tap the plug into it, the chances are as you are doing this the piston would slip downward in the vice and score the sides of the piston.
The plug falling out of the piston is common.
Good luck!
Edited by rodomo, 10 June 2006 - 01:42 AM.
#8
_LC2250_
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Posted 09 July 2006 - 02:22 PM
for the sake of closure and thanks for your help ... I actually did take this carby off and have a look through it ... it's a bloody mess inside ... I doubt it's even a case of reconditioning ...
Thanks Rodomo for your help ... it was not wasted ... I'm now looking to go twin strommys!
I'll ask another question though... think it would be better to go 2 strombergs with the big or small venturi (ie, off a 186,202 etc OR off a 138 or another small one)?
Cheers
-Al
Thanks Rodomo for your help ... it was not wasted ... I'm now looking to go twin strommys!
I'll ask another question though... think it would be better to go 2 strombergs with the big or small venturi (ie, off a 186,202 etc OR off a 138 or another small one)?
Cheers
-Al
Edited by LC2250, 09 July 2006 - 02:22 PM.
#9
davelh
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Posted 09 July 2006 - 04:21 PM
bugger twin strombergs, get another ww, or get yours recon
those twins are gay, and if you dont set them up right they will be nothing but trouble
if you get the twins, they need to be jetted right, otherwise you will be having all the same hassles
cheers
dave
those twins are gay, and if you dont set them up right they will be nothing but trouble
if you get the twins, they need to be jetted right, otherwise you will be having all the same hassles
cheers
dave
#10
_MYLJ_
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Posted 09 July 2006 - 06:31 PM
Is the 202 modified? if it isn't why not go back to a single barrel strommie?
#11
rodomo
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Posted 09 July 2006 - 07:16 PM
Yep, stay away from twins for the reasons mentioned above. The WW2 is a good all rounder if set up properly. I am putting one on my 3.3 black instead of the varijet. Ultimately I am aiming for good performance and low maintenance.
Edited by rodomo, 09 July 2006 - 07:20 PM.
#12
_LC2250_
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Posted 10 July 2006 - 02:46 PM
I guess considering everone is erring away from it I'll look into finding one in better condition to begin with or one thats been recoed recently ... this one has been messed around with by who ever had it before me ... I think it will be a major hassle to get working properly and costly ...
The 202 is just standard ... reconditioned if you may. Currently I'm on the single barrel strommy which is ok ... but would be nice to get a few more revs which the other carby definitely gave me ... just the economy was terrible!
Cheers
-Al
The 202 is just standard ... reconditioned if you may. Currently I'm on the single barrel strommy which is ok ... but would be nice to get a few more revs which the other carby definitely gave me ... just the economy was terrible!
Cheers
-Al
#13
_LC2250_
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:20 PM
again my own ignorance and sheer stupidity hasn't helped anything ... I'm sick of this stupid thing and have since gone ahead and checked if it WAS the welch plug in the top of the piston assembly ... it is completely fine.
Are there any other possibilities for what is causing so much extra petrol to be going through and burning as black smoke?
EDIT: If not that ... what is the cheapest place anyone can think of that will recondition a WW Strommy
Cheers
-Al
Are there any other possibilities for what is causing so much extra petrol to be going through and burning as black smoke?
EDIT: If not that ... what is the cheapest place anyone can think of that will recondition a WW Strommy
Cheers
-Al
Edited by LC2250, 25 July 2006 - 07:22 PM.
#14
Heath
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:27 PM
Or come and grab my 1bbl Strommie, head over to Bursons and pick up a gasket kit. I will rebuild it with you if you want.
I'm not familiar with the throttle linkage setup from the early models, but I'm sure you can take care of that part of it.
I'm not familiar with the throttle linkage setup from the early models, but I'm sure you can take care of that part of it.
#15
_LC2250_
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 08:47 PM
Trying to pedal your wares to me again eh Heath 
If I can't get this thing sorted out for a good price I'll prolly go with that option ... but two barrels is so much better than one! My car actually manages to rev over 4 grand with it ...
Cheers
-Al
If I can't get this thing sorted out for a good price I'll prolly go with that option ... but two barrels is so much better than one! My car actually manages to rev over 4 grand with it ...
Cheers
-Al
#16
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Posted 25 July 2006 - 11:48 PM
Just some more thoughts ...
I have no idea what these parts are called ... could these mysterious grade jets be the problem? could they be clogged up as well causing the petrol to not properly atomise thus blowing the smoke under load ... also how does one properly remove jets? Do I need some special tool for it?
Could this funny thing-a-ma-bobie in the middle with the pin in it and a spring underneath it in some cylinder like thing with a screw thread at the top and a little hole at the bottom be the cause of all concearns?
I think aside from all of that I'm fresh out of ideas ... I've spent many many hours now just looking through this damn thing ... I can't think of anything else that could be the cause ...
Cheers
-Al
I have no idea what these parts are called ... could these mysterious grade jets be the problem? could they be clogged up as well causing the petrol to not properly atomise thus blowing the smoke under load ... also how does one properly remove jets? Do I need some special tool for it?
Could this funny thing-a-ma-bobie in the middle with the pin in it and a spring underneath it in some cylinder like thing with a screw thread at the top and a little hole at the bottom be the cause of all concearns?
I think aside from all of that I'm fresh out of ideas ... I've spent many many hours now just looking through this damn thing ... I can't think of anything else that could be the cause ...
Cheers
-Al
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